A Public Informational Meeting was held by New York State Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation at the request of the Moreau Town Board on February 8, 2006 in the LGI Room in the South Glens Falls Senior High School for the purpose of presenting the draft Master Plan/DEIS for the Moreau Lake State Park.

The meeting began at 7:00 p.m.

Town of Moreau Town Board Members present or absent were as follows:

Harry G. Gutheil, Jr. Supervisor

Rich Hewlett Councilman

Niki Baker Councilwoman

Todd Kusnierz Councilman

Bob Prendergast Councilman

The following representatives from New York State Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation were present:

Bob Kuhn, Assistant Regional Director of State Parks

Tom Lyons, Director of Environmental Management

Diana Carter, Senior Planner

Mike Greenslades, Park Manager

Kurt Cress, Senior Park Engineer

Bob Reinhardt, Director of Planning for State Parks

Laura Conner, Moreau Lake Park Supervisor

Also Present: Jeanne Fleury, Town Clerk; Mike Valentine, Saratoga County Planning Board; Mike Dennis, appointed by the Governor to the Saratoga Capital Region State Park Commission; Superintendent McKinney from Mt. McGregor; and approximately 35 members of the general public.

Bob Kuhn started out by saying they took into account many of the comments from the last meeting of December 13th and they have extended the comment period to February 18^th on the draft master plan. Tonight’s presentation is to share with the Town Board what the plan is all about and answer any questions they might have and get their views. This meeting was announced in the newspaper and letters were sent to all who attended the December meeting. People can sign up at this meeting and be added to the mailing list.

Supervisor Gutheil was next to talk. He welcomed everyone to the meeting and thanked the State Park Representatives for honoring the Town Board’s request for this meeting. He advised that the Town Board may be asking for another extension of the comment period. He is anxious to hear how the Town’s people feel about the proposed plan. He has received a lot of telephone calls in opposition to the closing of Old Saratoga Road. He also noted that the full draft report lists him as a member of the advisory committee and he has never been invited to an advisory committee meeting. He has had very little input on the plan. He questioned whether any of the other people on the list actually met. He didn’t know if the meetings were even held. He introduced the Town Board Members. He stated that he has also received telephone calls from residents at the end of Potter Road regarding the amount of traffic this plan could generate in that area. We want our emergency services people involved in this process. There is a lot of material to cover in the draft, but the full draft is available for the public to review.

Tom Lyons spoke next. His role at this meeting was to make sure that all comments received are incorporated into the environmental review process. State Parks is subject to SEQRA (State Environmental Quality Review Act). The adoption of the master plan is a type 1 action under SEQR an action that might have significant environmental impacts and an impact statement will be done in conjunction with the master plan. The draft master plan was completed and noticed and on December 13^th a public hearing was held. The first comment period was scheduled to close on January 8^th. After the public hearing there was strong outcry for an extension of the comment period and that was done. The comment period now ends February 18^th. This meeting is not a public hearing rather an informal public meeting to give details on the various recreation areas and so forth. The Supervisor’s recommendation for extension of the comment period will be taken back with them to Albany. There will be a final generic environmental impact statement and a critical part of that final EIS is a response to comments. So any substantive comments heard at this meeting and the December 13^th public hearing and comments received during the comment period have to be read and categorized in the final generic EIS and a response made to each one of them. The final EIS will be available for review for at least 10 days and in cases like this they will provide a 30 day comment period. After the final EIS the agency has to prepare a statement of findings, which is basically a record upon which a decision is made. The decision is made by Commissioner Castro of State Parks who designated him as hearing officer.

Diana Carter then gave an overview of the contents of the master plan and utilized a power point presentation given by Laura Conner. The presentation began with a table of contents. During her overview Ms. Carter mentioned that Commissioner Castro assigned the advisory committee.

Mike Greenslades stated that there are two issues with traffic into the park. The first issue is with campers checking in generally on Friday afternoons and evenings. Cars are lined up along the road in the entrance to the park. A picture of cars lined up along the road was shown on the power point presentation and a school bus trying to maneuver around the parked cars. The other issue is cars lined up along Old Saratoga Road. This past year, the first four weekends when the swimming area was opened and a fee was charged to get in, they had to close the gate when they ran out of parking spots. It creates a hazard when people get out of their cars and wander around.

Diana Carter continued on with her power point presentation. Management areas proposed were covered. The management areas are the Hudson River Corridor, Potters Point Development, Warren County Management Area, Hawk Road Entrance, Palmerton Mt. Area, Lake Recreation Area and upgrading existing campground.

The Potters Point Development would be located down at the end of Potter Road, along the river, and proposes two 20-site tent/pop-up camper loops, shower building, other camper amenities, cabin and cottages, canoe launch trail, playground and volleyball court. It is currently a dirt road and at one time there were summer cabins along the river in that area. The full extent of this endeavor is expensive and the money is not available up front, but rather part of the overall 20-year plan.

Councilman Kusnierz asked if people would have access to the FERC area and the answer was yes. Kurt Cress advised that the master plan is looking 20 years out.

Kurt Cress gave three entrance alternatives.

Diana Carter continued on with the power point presentation. She covered the following topics:

Designations:

Bird Conservation Area

National Heritage Area

Park Preservation Area

Impacts & Mitigation:

Transportation

Recreation

Open Space

Water

Wetlands

Biological Resources

Ecology

Cultural Resources

Scenic/Aesthetic Resources

Public Health

A supplemental environmental review may be necessary following adoption of the master plan. Implementation of the plan would be a phased in approach over the next 20 years. The next step is to respond to comments, prepare a final master plan after the public comment period and publish notification of the complete master plan, a consideration period and then the Commissioner would issue a findings statement and then the plan would be adopted

Bob Kuhn stated that at this meeting they wanted to focus on the Town Board and hear their concerns and considerations and include them in the final plan.

Councilman Kusnierz asked how many acres of the Moreau State Park were in the Town of Moreau. Answer: approx. 2,800 acres are in Saratoga County and a majority of those are in Moreau.

Councilman Kusnierz noticed in the master plan there is an extensive list of people who serve on the advisory committee. Many of these people are local elected officials, appointed officials and representatives from non-profit/not-for-profit groups. In the Town of Queensbury, Lake Luzerne and Corinth all have a resident serving on the advisory committee. There isn’t any resident from the Town of Moreau serving on the committee. He asked one of the representatives from State Parks to address this.

Answer: During the scoping sessions in 1998 they asked for representatives and they sent broad invitations out for the scoping sessions.

Councilman Hewlett asked what their rationale was for the Potters Point area river access and campsites. They would be in a residential area.

Answer: At one time there used to be cabins there. The river provides a very unique recreation resource and a different type of recreation opportunity than what is available in the park itself. They want to provide the public with a chance to experience that type of recreation. During the first hearing the comments focused on RV camping. They are not proposing RV camping at Potters Point. It is being proposed out on the Route 9 property.

Councilman Hewlett stated he appreciated the recreational experience, but there are a lot of new home down there on Potter Road and that development isn’t fully built out yet. He asked if they would reconsider that area. The response to this was they would put this comment down as one of the things to look at.

Councilwoman Baker stated that the traffic pattern within that residential area (Potter Road) would change dramatically and it would not be a moderate impact.

Supervisor Gutheil stated that down the road the character of that area will change dramatically. There are large parcels that could potentially be developed.

Supervisor Gutheil stated that Mike has been good about hiring local people to work in the park. The Town lost a couple of thousands of acres of taxable real property and we asked the state to give us an in-lieu of tax payment and it has fallen on deaf ears. Yet, in the Adirondack Park they reimbursed communities on a per acre. This is something we would like to see worked on. He liked the area of the trail linkage. There is a lot of educational value there. However, if you become victims of your own success then we also become concerned about over use.

Supervisor Gutheil stated that in regards to the access to the river, the state has had opportunities to provide access to the river. The Town had an agreement with the state. They were going to build a launch site off the West River Road and it hasn’t materialized.

Councilman Kusnierz asked what the ratio of daily traffic was in regards to day use vs. campers.

Answer: Weekdays it is 50/50 and on weekends it is day users. They are filled to capacity every weekend from Memorial Day to Labor Day.

Supervisor Gutheil asked if they intended to expand the beach area and the answer was no.

Supervisor Gutheil stated he heard that people have trouble getting on the beach sometimes and asked if this was true.

Answer: They have run out of parking room, but they have never reached beach capacity per DOH regulations.

Supervisor Gutheil referred to the section on historical artifacts and asked if the old school house ever leaves their property if they would consider giving our historical society an option of having it. When we try to bring in industry we talk about Moreau Lake State Park as an asset, but there are also people who enjoy hunting, fishing and trapping on those properties and we don’t want those interests jeopardized.

Councilwoman Baker stated there is a major safety issue for our residents if Old Saratoga Road are gated. She wouldn’t want her house to be on fire while the fire company is trying to unlock the gate at both ends or a child is choking while the EMS is trying to unlock and lock the gates.

State Parks responded: We had the same concerns you have. The whole issue of closing Old Saratoga Road and traffic patterns requires a lot more study. That decision would not be made with this plan, but rather we would consider the recommendations, go through the studies and supplemental review.

Councilwoman Baker stated the closing of Old Saratoga Road was a major issue with her and needed to be addressed before she would even negotiate with the state on ownership of the road.

Councilwoman Baker asked for the names of people who attended the meetings held by the advisory committee and state parks. Diana Carter stated it would take some doing, but she would get her the information.

Supervisor Gutheil asked if there was any public notice given of the meetings and Diana Carter replied yes.

Councilwoman Baker asked where the notices of the meetings were sent to Supervisor Gutheil, because obviously they weren’t sent to Town Hall. This question couldn’t be answered by those present.

Supervisor Gutheil asked if there were notices mailed out to people on the committee about the meetings and the reply was yes. He stated that his name must have gotten lost then or the mail got lost.

Councilwoman Baker stated the same goes for our Recreation Director. He never received notice nor was he invited. She stated that she wants to know how many of the people on the list ever received notice or attended a meeting.

Supervisor Gutheil asked Pliny Tucker who was in the audience if he was ever notified of any of the meetings. Pliny Tucker stated he was appointed to the park committee back in 1997-98 when he was on the board in Queensbury with Fred Champagne. The last meeting he attended was in the Town of Lake Luzerne in 2000. He received mailings for a while and eventually they stopped. He requested tonight to be put back on the mailing list.

Pliny Tucker asked the state representatives if they have any money to do any of the things they proposed. The reply was that there is a budget process they have to follow. They can’t start until they finish the master plan. They need that in hand before they can ask for any money.

Supervisor Gutheil expressed a concern over the proposed RV sites out on the Route 9 parcel. There is an existing RV park on the Fortsville Road who pays taxes in the Town.

Supervisor Gutheil stated that the stiffest opposition they will see is on the closure of Old Saratoga Road. The state will be hard pressed to get any support for that.

Supervisor Gutheil asked if they were willing to extend the comment period. The answer was they will take the request back to their boss in Albany.

Supervisor Gutheil said he would like to review the comments that his constituents have made. He hated to have to FOIL the minutes of their meetings, but he would like to know who attended the meetings, what the participation was, questions raised that weren’t addressed, input, etc.

Supervisor Gutheil was asked how long he would like the comment period extended for and he replied 30 days.

Councilman Kusnierz stated that with a project of this magnitude asking for additional time to comment is not unreasonable. The state reps. didn’t disagree. They will take the message back.

Supervisor Gutheil stated they would be interested in access at some point to the transmission line to the hydro facilities if need be. There is a reason he is asking for this. He also noted that in the report it reads the FERC license is for 50 years and he suggested they look into this, because it could be a 40 year license. If the state has agreements with them it may be significant.

Supervisor Gutheil stated that the Town Planning Board and Comprehensive Planning Committee should have the opportunity to review the plan.

Bob Lyons stated that if any of the public present has any new questions, different than what was covered at the December 13^th meeting, they would be willing to hear them and try to answer them.

Question: Who do you respond to in regards to the comments?

Answer: The comments are put in writing in summary form and the agency has to develop a paragraph or more under each comment responding to it in the SEQR process in the final EIS.

Question: There is talk about the Moreau State Park increasing public interest in the park by hosting school groups and public interest groups in general in the park. How can you do this if the beach cannot be accessed on certain days now and what is the capacity allowed on the beach?

Answer: The limit allowed on the beach is 183 people. It is the parks intention to build a relationship with school groups, etc… and provide them with educational opportunities.

Question: Where are you going to put these people?

Answer: There is room at the beach and the facilities. The critical issue is the bottleneck of traffic and parking.

Comment: It appears the state is trying to spend the least amount of money to create the most impact by proposing the closure of Old Saratoga Road. It is an inexpensive way to cannibalize the residences along the road so RV’s can come in straight vs. two times a year when traffic is back up on Old Saratoga Road.

The state needs to focus on the people who live on Old Saratoga Road and their quality of life and the Town needs to keep in mind future development of Old Saratoga Road area and how to get services out to the people.

Comment: In touring national parks this summer it was noticed that people had to get in and out of their cars to register and they should know that they may have to do some walking or crossing of a road and they should be able to do this without endangering their lives.

Question: Will there be power loops? Will National Grid put in hook ups for campers?

Answer: Only for the RV camping loop.

Comment: Why is more, better? It is not that enjoyable in the park anymore. You try to fish or walk and there are dogs barking or people shouting.

Question: Who does the EIS?

Answer: State Parks does, they are lead agency in this project.

Question: If the Town says the state can’t close Old Saratoga Road is the state going to close it anyway?

Answer: The state could, but the policy is not to go through eminent domain.

Comment: I have never seen a campground entrance run through a residential neighborhood (talking about Potter Road area). I want the Town Board to know that at the December meeting a statement was made that the river is not fit to swim in. You are going to turn a residential neighborhood into a highway.

Comment: The suggestion was made to make another turn lane into the park and move the toll booth down farther into the park. I have never seen traffic that you talk about. There should be a sign directing people to turn into the park.

Mike Valentine a representative of the Saratoga County Planning Board referred to pages 171 and 177 in the draft master plan that covered biking and hiking trails and preferred options. The alternatives are mentioned as #3-#7. Alternative #7 reads, "cooperate with local governments in developing connections to regional bicycle loops". In reviewing the list of members on the advisory committee, my name is listed as is the Supervisors. We both serve on the technical advisory committee with the MPO for this area, the Adirondack Glens Falls Transportation Corp. We have a rough draft of a plan that was submitted, as a bike group, including bike groups from Warren-Washington County, South Glens Falls and Town of Moreau. The trail system in South Glens Falls and Moreau’s draft mainly is sketched out to show where to look for funding in the future for trails. Nobody from the MPO are listed on the advisory committee for the study of this plan and it would have been a good idea, because the trail system is also in the comprehensiveplan that the Town is working on. If there is anything seriously looked at to make trail connections with existing trails that would come from Warren-Washington County and through Moreau and South Glens Falls that would connect to the north part of the park, it would be nice to have it as part of the plan. In the plan for the park it reads "non-applicable" as far as extension of trails to areas outside, either to the Recreation Management Area or to any of the other areas.

The response to this comment was "if you could get us copies of those plans we would be happy to consider them". Mike Valentine responded with the suggestion that they contact the MPO and request a copy or go through the Comprehensive Planning Committee at the Town level.

Supervisor Gutheil suggested the state should have some dialogue with the county regarding their plan. They should have some input in this plan also.

Mike Valentine stated that if parking is the central focus or main problem then parking on the interior of the park should be addressed rather than closing down a Town road.

The response to this was that they can’t expand the parking at the beach area due to the terrain.

Mike Valentine asked how acquiring a section of Town road would help that out.

The answer was that the concept behind closure of the road was more to address the traffic issue than to address the overall parking.

Mike Valentine asked why a turn lane wouldn’t be feasible. It was listed as an alternative.

The answer was it is a feasible alternative that was looked at.

Mike Valentine asked why it was knocked off the list of options to consider then and the response was essentially because of the proposed development of land between Old Saratoga Road and Route 9. If we left the existing configuration of the park, people would have to turn into the park, go through the booth, turn around and then come back across Old Saratoga road to get to the Route 9 area.

Mike Valentine stated that the development of the property between Old Saratoga Road and Route 9 was in Phase III and yet, the closure of Old Saratoga Road was in Phase I.

The response to this was that they had to start negotiating the process. We are going beyond where we have to be tonight. Your concerns are valid. We looked at a variety of options and what we have shown you is what we felt is probably the best solution for the park as a whole.

Councilman Kusnierz asked if they had considered a satellite park and ride. The response was they haven’t, but could look at this option.

Comment: If you saw that a Town Board Member wasn’t attending your meetings then why didn’t you call them? How would you handle making South Road a main road? There is pedestrian traffic on South Road and blind sights. Why would you consider taking part of Old Saratoga Road and make South Road a main road.

Answer: We will document your concerns.

Supervisor Gutheil asked questions about how the recommendations get to the commissioner and the review process. Answers were given.

Question: What does a traffic study consist of?

Answer: A consultant is hired to do a traffic count and models are developed based on projected development.

Comment: The campground isn’t open year-round, why not have two pay stations one for RV’s and the other for the rest.

Answer: That was an option. What is proposed is what they thought was the best option for the park.

Mike Valentine stated that there is dirt road right now at the end of Potter Road that goes to the area proposed for campsites and he asked if they intended to pave that section or would they expect the Town to pave it. The answer to this was that the state would pave within their boundaries.

Question: Would campfires be permitted in the Palmerton Mr. section. This was a concern.

Answer: If they were then they may be able to place fire rings and maybe restrict it to use of camp stoves only in that area.

Supervisor Gutheil asked the state reps. if based on what they heard tonight and at the December meeting, would they still recommend the closure of Old Saratoga Road. The answer was that they would take all the comments and questions back with them for consideration.

This concluded this meeting and the meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.