Planning Board
Regular Meeting
January 23, 2006
The regular meeting of the Planning Board, Town of Moreau, County of Saratoga and State of New York was held in the Town Office Building, 61 Hudson Street, South Glens Falls, New York on January 23, 2006
Planning Board members attending the meeting were: Chairman Peter Jensen, Ronald Caulin, Kenneth Dixon, Ronald Zimmerman, Building Inspector Joseph Patricke and Martin Auffredou. Absent were Tom Field and James Edward.
Meeting was called to order Chairman Jensen at 7:00 pm.
Review of the minutes of the December 19, 2005 meeting, Mr. Caulin made a motion to accept the minutes, Mr. Zimmerman 2nd the motion, motion carried, minutes approved.
l. Westgate Estates - Public Hearing for SEQRA 7:00 pm
Mr. Auffredou, Attorney for the Town of Moreau reviewed the issues. The subdivision known as Westgate with 60 lots was approved in the early 1990's but never received final approval from the State agencies.
The issue for tonight is the soil vapor intrusions. There was a meeting in 2005 and the Planning Board was asked to reopen the subdivision process for a limited issue on soil vapor intrusion. The Planning Board is the lead agency, and decided to schedule and conduct a public hearing. The Department of Health was invited to speak on soil vapor intrusions. The Public Hearing's sole purpose is to consider soil vapor intrusion, and to find out what it means. The SEQRA review will need to be conducted on part ii, it can be done tonight or at a future meeting.
Chairman Jensen - Is the Department of Health (DOH) representative ready?
Wendy Kuehner (DOH) The site is located north of the Bluebird Road and it was General Electric (GE) property. There is a well known plume under this area and it flows with the ground water. Investigations began in the early 1980's for toxic material and TCE was found. There has been ground water monitoring since 1984, and in some places it is still pretty high. This type of volatile gases can get into slabs and basements. Soil vapor samples were collected in 1992 and 1993, and every now and then there was a high reading. In 2003 indoor air samples and air under slabs were taken on Bluebird Road and most of them came up clean. But there were some detections and a potential does exist. A sub slab depressurization system similar to the radon mitigation system can be used on new construction. DOH recommends-
To install the systems
To inform buyers of ground water contamination by putting this information in the deed and to have routine monitoring of the system
No mitigation but monitoring
Richard Fedigan (DOH) -This plume is a long term concern and it is slowly dissipating. We want to see protection for the home for a long term, and it must be maintained.
Mr. Dixon- How?
Richard Fedigan - Check for cracks in the pipes, make sure the fan is still running.
Wendy Kuehner- A gage will show if there is negative pressure
Mr. Dixon - You checked on Bluebird Road for this?
Richard Fedigan - Yes, the plume hasn't moved, the houses we checked were fine.
Wendy Kuehner - It is a case by case testing.
Mr. Dixon - Is it more prevalent in any one time?
Ms. Kuehner - During the heating time, house is closed up and the gases remain inside.
Mr. Fedigan - The vapor goes to the least resistance.
Mr. Zimmerman -What is the cost for homeowners to install this system?
Mr. Fedigan - If it is put in after the house is built it is around $1,500 to $2,000 and it is less if it is put in at time of construction. The maintenance on this is the fan, and cracks and the expense is in running the fan and electricity. The system also checks for other gases.
Chairman Jensen - What about a passive system?
Mr. Fedigan - It doesn't work 24/7 and an active system is running as long as the fan is on.
Chairman Jensen - What is the recommended threshold?
Ms. Kuehner- Indoor air sub slab anything above 500 micrograms.
Mr. Fedigan - It is an open field now, but once you put a house and slab there the gases are caught.
Chairman Jensen - One sampling was high and the rest were okay? Ms. Kuehner - Yes, but there were 3 others above normal.
Mr. Fedigan - TCE is there, and the potential is there. Mr. Dixon -- Is the flow in a straight line?
Ms. Kuehner- Because of the geology in the area it is hard to tell.
Mr. Fedigan -- It is in the general footprint, but it is hit or miss, it's the same with homes. One house may have it and the next won't.
Chairman Jensen - Has there been sampling done in the area of Westgate? Any sampling outside of the area?
Mr. Fedigan - No
Chairman Jensen W- Where is it going?
Mr. Fedigan - Over the area of the plume.
Mr. Zimmerman - Has it moved?
Ms. Kuehner - It has stayed the same.
Mr. Zimmerman -- Over time the hits maybe less?
Ms. Kuehner-- There are a number of years of data, and it wouldn't be expected to change, the level of the water table may change the readings.
Mr. Dixon - Would adding septic systems raise the water table? Mr. Fedigan - It would have a small impact.
Chairman Jensen -- Is there a concern for the water supply for Fort Edward? Ms. Kuehner - EPA has a treatment area near the water source.
Mr. Caulin - The subdivision was. approved in the 1990's why did it take so long to find out about this?
Ms. Kuehner -- Soil vapor intrusion is new, over the last few years, prior to that it wasn't a known pathway.
Mr. Caulin - If the Board approved it in the 1990's?
Gary Robinson - The preliminary to GE bringing water, that's why it took so long to go to final, and we continued the process. A wetland approval had to be issued again and it was contingent on the final approval from the Board. Then the concern over soil vapor appeared, there was EPA testing and we received a letter from DOH that said go ahead, then we were waiting for the wetlands and the soil vapor issue changed. There is deep sand in the area and the ground water is between 10" to 20" deep. The existing homes have not tested positive, and our homes will be built much better.
Mr. Dixon -- Which is better building on a slab or a cellar?
Mr. Fedigan - They are the same.
Chairman Jensen - These are the concerns expressed:
-It is a relatively new issue, and didn't have the understanding, the project may have been approved but we found out, and there is a way to mitigate it.
-Other people will want to know this is an important aspect.
And in your opinion the plume is within the yellow lines, outside of the area is safe?
Mr. Fedigan -We have experience in this area, ground was contaminant and the water goes to the surface.
Chairman Jensen - Are there concerns with the houses on the Fort Edward Road?
Mr. Dixon -- Any other testing being done?
Ms. Kuehner- There were other toxins found, such as gasoline.
Mr. Fedigan - TCE is the leading contaminant.
Gary Robinson -- Is the yellow line the extent of the plume?
Ms. Kuehner -- It is not to scale, just a line showing approximate area.
Mr. Fedigan - The EPA will have more current maps, has the Town received anything from EPA?
Mr. Patricke NO
Mr. Zimmerman - Timing is fortuitous, it is not your recommendation that the homes be tested?
Mr. Fedigan -- Would recommend to all new home builders that it be tested. EPA and GE need to talk about soil vapor and should be investigated more over the plume.
Mr. Zimmerman - Has EPA done anything?
Gary Robison - What about the next project to the North?
Mr. Fedigan - More sampling inside of the yellow lines.
Mr. Robinson - If system is installed, is anymore sampling necessary?
Mr. Fedigan -- Sampling is hit or miss.
Chairman Jensen - Protocol for meeting.
Harry Gutheil -Are there any Natural Resource Claims from the Attorney Generals Office?
Mr. Fedigan No
Mr. Gutheil - Are there any other sites in the state for soil vapor intrusion?
Mr. Fedigan - Not that I know of.
Mr. Gutheil - Should pass this on to the State and EPA for further liabilities.
Mr. Auffredou - You recommend informing the buyers?
Mr. Fedigan - One of two things
1. Need is for long term future buyers, something added to the deed. 2. In a case of offsite plume responsible party would have to do an annual certification of the system or notify in deed so buyer down the road will be aware.
Mr. Auffredou -- No mitigation, who would do it?
Mr. Fedigan -- If it is not the responsible party, maybe the land owner. Normally a big company would have to follow through.
Mr. Auffredou - In this case the individual property owner?
Mr. Fedigan -- Someone must maintain the system, the homeowners may shut them off, it depends on the party.
Mr. Zimmerman -A homeowners association would be required to maintain the system?
Mr. Fedigan - Yes, something like that would work, we can't require it. JP Trapp (DOH) -Transport corporation for a liability for long term. Mr. Fedigan - We would look at the plan and make suggestions.
Mr. Dixon -Would you issue a certification? Mr. Fedigan -- No, we don't.
Mr. Gutheil - It is being passed on and coming back to the local level.
Mr. Robinson - GE could do this?
Mr. Fedigan - Yes, they could.
Mr. Robinson - Is there enough data and would GE be responsible.
Mr. Fedigan - They would be responsible if there is enough data.
Mr. Robinson - Who deals with this?
Mr. Fedigan EPA
Mr. Robinson - Existing homes could get these paid for?
Mr. Fedigan - The cost of monitoring is high and will end up more than putting the system in.
JP Trapp - GE would want to hear about the system.
Chairman Jensen - Any further questions?
Mr. Auffredou - Chairman your options
- Public hearing, can go through EAF, you can keep the public hearing open and can approach GE if you have enough information you can go ahead with the EAF
Chairman Jensen -- Recommendation from Council because we are not 100% sure that we have everything, and need help and guidance, would your recommendation be to table this.
Mr. Auffredou - I would suggest keeping the public hearing open and tabling the EAF, the Town Board may want to talk about its concerns, may approach GE, if you continue you may not get all the information, it may be beneficial to the Town and property owners.
Chairman Jensen - Is there a motion to reconvene at the next meeting?
Mr. Dixon - Makes a motion to table the EAF, keep the public hearing open until next meeting.
Mr. Zimmerman -2nds the motion.
Motion carries.
Mr. Dixon - Makes a motion to move the February's meeting because of the holiday to February 27"':
Mr. Zimmerman -- 2nd the motion
Motion carries.
II. KC Truck Stop Site Plan Review
Ethan Hall representing the owners reviews the site plan. The information is back from Saratoga County and there are minor changes in parking. Relocate 4 parking spots to the west side, and repaint the stripping.
Chairman Jensen - Are you prepared to restrip? Mr. Hall Yes
Chairman Jensen - Board any questions? Board.
Mr. Dixon - Makes a motion to approve the site plan for KC Truck Stop
Mr. Caulin - 2nd the motion
Roll call;
Mr. Caulin - yes
Mr. Zimmerman yes
Mr. Dixon - yes
Chairman Jensen - yes
Motion carries.
Chairman Jensen - What about the Mylar's?
Mr. Dixon - Makes a motion that the chairman and one other sign the Mylar's.
Mr. Zimmerman - 2nd the motion
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin ryes
Mr. Zimmerman -yes
Mr. Dixon- yes
Chairman Jensen yes
Motion carries.
Chairman Jensen - After the Mylar's are signed they must be presented to Saratoga County within 60 days.
III, Saratoga Custom Cycles Site Plan Review
John Peoples, owner, and reviews his site plan. Only a few changes to the existing building, change the doors and put windows in, landscape the area, put a walkway in the center. All the work and repair on the scooters will be done on the inside, and there is enough parking for about 50 cars.
Chairman Jensen - In the existing changes, what do you plan to do with the drains?
Mr. Peoples - Yes there are drains, but I will cement them off.
Chairman Jensen - There will be no oil spills? Are you buying the building?
Mr. Peoples-Yes, I am buying the three buildings.
Chairman Jensen -What is the current use?
Mr. Peoples -- Nothing, they were building trailers, they had a couple of storage areas, a real mess.
Chairman Jensen -What business?
Mr. Peoples - Repair and manufacturing Mr. Dixon - No repairs outside?
Mr. Peoples - No, they are scooters like Vespers.
Mr. Dixon - Are they very quiet? What will the hours be?
Mr. Peoples -- Very quiet and the hours will be Monday through Friday 9-6 and %day on Saturday.
Chairman Jensen - Do we have a recommendation from Saratoga County? Any questions Board?
Mr. Caulin - I would like to see more professional drawings, lighting on this lot, do you own it, is there plenty of parking, show it all on the site plan.
Mr. Peoples - Most of the parking will be on the side or back.
Mr. Zimmerman - Any other door?
Mr. Peoples - The door in the front.
Mr. Caulin - Drawing of a professional site plan.
Mr. Zimmerman - Show what your long term plan is, and what about plowing? How is the drainage?
Mr. Peoples - No problem, we are higher, the garage sits 2 or 3' higher.
Mr. Zimmerman - What about paving
Mr. Peoples - Yes, in the spring.
Mr. Zimmerman -Are there separate entrances for customers and employees?
Mr. Caulin -- We need something more extensive than this site plan.
Mr. Auffredou - I believe there has to be something from the County. If there are things you need to have more information on, let him know.
Mr. Dixon - Did you go to the Zoning Board?
Mr. Peoples - Yes, they wanted me to come here also. Mr. Zimmerman - Is there a sign?
Mr. Peoples - I will have one on the building with letter 1 I' high.
Mr. Zimmerman - We do have codes if you decide to have a sign out front.
Mr. Peoples - There is an existing sign now.
Chairman Jensen - Have you received anything from Saratoga County yet, Joe.
Mr. Patricke -- No, there is a site plan review before the special use permit.
Mr. Auffredou - Has it been sent to the County?
Mr. Patricke -w Yes
Chairman Jensen -We need more information, but I can poll the Board for their opinion of the project.
Mr. Dixon - Okay with changes
Mr. Zimmerman - Okay with changes
Mr. Caulin - Okay with changes
Chairman Jensen -- The Board seems to be interested in the project, it is up to you if you decide to continue or not.
Mr. Auffredou - He needs a site plan review from the Planning Board and the Zoning Board.
Chairman Jensen - Would you like to be on the agenda for next meeting.
Mr. Peoples -Yes, next meeting.
IV. Leonelli Apartment Complex- Site Plan Review
Gary Robinson reviews the site plan of Leonelli Apartments located at Bluebird and Sisson Roads.
Mr. Robinson - The property slopes down, there is a small stream in the back of the property, there are some wetlands and the water table varies from the front of 33" and the back at 6" in depth, have been trying to place the unites more toward the front and near the main road. Have developed a neighborhood plan, there will be 272 units and each building will have two or less bedrooms, some of the units will have a garage. There is a maintenance building and a pump station in the back of the property. Still working to form a water district, working with the Town and Village concerning sewer and water.
Mr. Patricke - Under contract with the Town, the Village can supply the water.
Mr. Robinson - Will be connecting to water district #3 to Harrison Avenue from the Queensbury water supply. There are sidewalks in the site and along Harrison Avenue and 5 acres won't be developed and left as passive parklands.
We would want you to take a look at it; we are laying out money for sewer and water, and would like to schedule a Public Hearing for SEQRA.
Mr. Dixon - Will you have storage units for the homes?
Mr. Robinson -We will take a look at doing that.
Chairman Jensen - It is not a Town owned road?
Mr. Robinson - No, it is a private road, we will bring the traffic study for the Public Hearing and we will present the findings.
Chairman Jensen - Board any questions? Is this information adequate?
Mr. Dixon - They are okay with water and sewer?
Mr. Patricke -- It is moving along, but nothing has been finalized.
Mr. Robinson - We are putting together districts.
Mr. Auffredou - Don't see this as a delay for you.
Mr. Robinson - Yes, there will be a lighting and landscaping plan available, and most of the buildings are near the setbacks.
Mr. Dixon, - Have you worked on any other project like this?
Mr. Robinson - Malta, there is a 204 unit project on Rt. 9.
Mr. Zimmerman - Do you have a storm water management plan?
Mr. Robinson - The snow removal would be off to the back and we will take it and move it if we need to.
Chairman Jensen - Any questions Board? What about the straight stretch of road, would this bring speeding?
Mr. Robinson -We could put in stop signs.
Mr. Zimmerman - What if there was a fire at the maintenance building is there a turn around area for the trucks?
Mr. Robinson - In front of maintenance building would be parking, and they would turn around there.
Chairman Jensen - What do you want to do Board?
Mr. Dixon - What is the width of the road?
Mr. Robinson - 24'
Mr. Patricke -- The information about how many kids per unit, any other information please bring it to the Public Hearing.
Chairman Jensen -r Board are there any more questions?
Mr. Zimmerman -- I move that we schedule a Public Hearing for Leonelli Apartments for the March meeting, the Td Monday of March at 7pm.
Mr. Dixon 2nd the motion.
Motion carries.
Mr. Auffredou - Will you be the lead agency for SEQRA?
Chairman Jensen - Yes, also we need 8 copies of the site plan and we do need a motion to assume lead agency.
Mr. Dixon -- Motions that the Planning Board will be the lead agency for the S EQ RA review.
Mr. Zimmerman -- 2nd the motion.
Motion carries
Chairman Jensen - Get the site plans to Mr. Patricke.
V. Robert Shaw oil and- Kerosene - Site Plan Review
No one was present to discuss this site plan, Board moved to next item on agenda.
VI. Breda Day Care - Site Plan Review
Mike Breda - I would like to purchase the property at 9450 Rt. 9, which is now an antique shop, I own World Class Daycare on Aviation Road in Queensbury. We would also put a 3000' square foot addition on for a maximum of 83 child facility.
Mr. Zimmerman - What is the zoning?
Mr. Patricke - C2
Mr. Dixon - Will it be daytime hours?
Mr. Breda - It will be open from 7:30 am to 5:30 pm Monday through Friday.
Mr. Dixon - How many employees?
Mr. Breda -14 to 16 employees, we have already met with the licensing people in Saratoga County, and showed the plans, and we have to check with them after the approval.
Chairman Jensen - Board any questions? Has it been sent to Saratoga County yet?
Mr. Patricke - Yes, the site plan and special use
Chairman Jensen - Board do we need to schedule a Public Hearing or do we need more information?
Mr. Breda - We will run the daycare the same as the Queensbury one.
Mr. Zimmerman - Will it take the place of the Queensbury one?
Mr. Breda- No, this will be a second site.
Chairmen Jensen - Board and questions? Do you want a Public Hearing?
Mr. Zimmerman - I make a motion that we schedule a Public Hearing for February 27th.
Mr. Caulin - 2nd the motion.
Motion carries.
Chairman Jensen - Board any questions, anything else? What do we need the layout, storm water management, parking, landscaping and the traffic pattern.
Mr. Patricke -- Chairman should I forward the storm water to the Town engineer? Chairman Jensen -Yes, send it, Board any further questions?
Mr. Caulin -Are there any signs on Aviation Road indicating that a daycare is in the area?
Mr. Breda - No.
VII. Tierney/Daigle Sketch Plan Review
Tom Tierney and Dennis Daigle were present to review their sketch plan. Mr. Tierney - The property is located at 1451-1453 Rt. 9, which includes 3 parcels. The drywall center has a frontage of 125' and we would like to expand it to 210', then put Luisa's on 1 deed, and then make the middle area one lot.
Mr. Dixon - What is the road frontage?
Mr. Tierney- The new frontage would be 210.
Mr. Patricke -- That would comply with code.
Chairman Jensen - These are property line changes?
Mr. Daigle - The hotel is down, and the house is coming down.
Mr. Tierney - Want to sell the center property to Mr. Saunders for future use.
Mr. Dixon - Villa Luisa's will be the same.
Mr. Tierney Yes
Mr. Zimmerman - Do you anticipate any changes for drywall?
Mr. Tierney - Yes, create another entrance because there is some congestion between 6:34-8:30.
Chairman Jensen - The application is for 3 lots now?
Mr. Patricke - It is for one lot line adjustment and to create 2 more lots.
Chairman Jensen - Construction is not contemplated, and demolition of the house is coming, subdivision of the land creating legal lots. Board since this is a subdivision there are certain things to do, Board you can accept a short form EAF.
Mr. Dixon - I motion to accept the short form EAF for the subdivision.
Mr. Zimmerman - 2nd the motion.
Motion carries.
Chairman Jensen -- Board do you need more information? Do you have all the needed information? Do we need to schedule a Public Hearing?
Mr. Dixon - I make a motion to schedule a Public Hearing on February 27 at 7:15pm for the Tierney/Daigle Subdivision.
Mr. Zimmerman --2nd the motion.
Motion carries.
Chairman Jensen - Board any questions or do you have enough information?
Mr. Dixon - I make a motion to waive the topo survey.
Mr. Zimmerman - 2nd the motion.
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin -yes
Mr. Zimmerman - yes
Mr. Dixon -- yes
Chairman Jensen-yes
Chairman Jensen - Mr. Tierney don't forget to post a sign on your property.
VIII. Stonegate Holdings LLC -Sketch Plan Review
Mr. Rourke representing owners Bill and Carolyn Johnson.
Mr. Rourke - This parcel is located on Rt. 197 acres across from Tee Bird, zoned R5, and is 100 acres, would like to subdivide into 4 lots, 3 lots for a one family resident on each one, and the remainder will be for the horses.
Chairman Jensen -A total of 4 lots?
Mr. Rourke - There is an existing culvert between lots 3 and 4 and there will be a common driveway.
Chairman Jensen - This is a 4 lot subdivision and we can waive some of the requirements and do a short form EAF.
Mr. Zimmerman - I make a motion to use the short form EAF.
Mr. Dixon - 2nd the motion
Motion carries.
Mr. Rourke - We would also request a variance of the 10' contours.
Chairman Jensen - Board are the contours adequate at 10'?
Mr. Dixon - I make a motion to waive the requirement for contours, and allow the 10' contours on this subdivision.
Mr. Caulin - 2nd the motion.
Motion carries.
Chairman Jensen -Would you like to be on the schedule for the next meeting?
Mr. Rourke- yes, does the combination of the two driveways bother the Board? Chairman Jensen - It is okay.
IX. Groundworks Utilities Site Plan Review
Ethan Hall representing Groundworks.
Mr. Hall -- The property is located on Rt. 9, north east of exit 17, it now consists of 2 parcels and is being combined into one. Plans on using the existing office and the rest of the parcel will be a storage area for heavy equipment and bedding material, stone. Most of the time there will not be equipment on site; the equipment will be on the work site, used for storage during the winter months. Plan on adding a new driveway with gate, parking lot, sign will stay there, and landscaping the area in front, deck on the back of building will be removed.
Mr. Nevell - Groundworks intends to use the entire parcel.
Chairman Jensen - Do you have storm water plans for this site? Mr. Patricke - Nothing has been done on storm water management.
Mr. Hall -- The catch basin needs to be cleaned out, but it is in the road right-of-way.
Mr. Patricke - What about landscaping and the fence?
Mr. Hall - The stockade fencing will remain.
Mr. Zimmerman -- Mr. Edwards would say to remove the fence, put up a chain link with green strips.
Mr. Hall -- Mr. Shield the future owner, will be accountable for the entire area.
Mr. Dixon -- The fence is illegal.
Mr. Patricke - The height of the fence is illegal, it is too high. Do you have landscaping plans?
Mr. Hail - I will have it on the plans, and I will bring up the matter of the fence to Mr. Shields.
Chairman Jensen -- Board any questions?
Mr. Zimmerman -- No lighting on property.
Mr. Hall - Will be adding lighting to the buildings.
Mr. Zimmerman -- Will there be landscaping on the north side of property?
Mr. Hall -- None were planned; I can bring it up to Mr. Shields.
Mr. Zimmerman - What about the condition of the soil, there were old cars on the property.
Mr. Hall - I believe that they did a Phase 1 environmental by CT Male and everything was okay.
Chairman Jensen -Would you like to come again next month? Board do you have any questions?
Mr. Patricke - You need to talk to Mike Shaver about a water tap, municipal water will be there soon, this summer.
Mr. Nevell - I think they did the taps already.
Mr. Auffredou - Do you need a special use for parking?
Mr. Hall - Groundworks is a commercial use.
Chairman Jensen- Board should we schedule a Public Hearing?
Mr. Zimmerman -- I make a motion for a Public Hearing for February 27 at 7:30pm.
Chairman Jensen - Motion dies for lack of a 2nd.
Other Business None
Mr. Dixon - I make a motion for adjournment.
Mr. Zimmerman 2d the motion.
Motion carries, adjourned at 9:54pm.
Respectfully submitted,
OC-1
Faith Bouchard Recording Secretary
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