The regular meeting of the Planning Board, Town of Moreau, County of Saratoga and State of New York was held in the Town Office Building, 61 Hudson Street, South Glens Falls, New York at 7:00 p.m. on January 29, 2007. 

Planning Board members in attendance were Chairman Peter Jensen, Thomas Field, Gary Dickinson, James Edwards and Ronald Zimmerman. Others present: F. Joseph Patricke, Attorney Martin J. Auffredou.

The meeting was called to order by Chairman Jensen at 7:00 p.m. There were no minutes available to review.

Travis Mitchell, Environmental Design: The Preserve at Old Saratoga Road is a 27 lot subdivision. Preliminary approval was granted. Renderings of the proposed sign are submitted tonight with final plans. Tim Burley has done engineering review and Department of Health as well. I would like to answer any questions you may have and request final approval.

Mr. Zimmerman: Are we waiting on comments from Tim?

Mr. Patricke: No, he has reviewed everything, it is fine and he will have a written confirmation of that to you. The sign was the only thing that was not on the Mylars, so any approval would have to be contingent on Tim’s final review because of that addition.

Chairman Jensen: Board, are there any questions of the applicant?

Mr. Mitchell: The sign is partially in the Town’s right of way and partially in the Homeowners’ Association property. We will set up language that the HOA is responsible for the maintenance of the sign and any damages.

Attorney Auffredou: The Town Board would have to grant a license approval to the HOA for that, and I think you would have to come to them on the 2^nd or 4^th Tuesday of the month.

Chairman Jensen: If we should decide to approve the subdivision, could we make that another contingency in addition to the final engineering review?

Atty. Auffredou: Yes.

Mr. Edwards: On other projects have they always been outside the Town right of way ?

Mr. Patricke: To the best of my knowledge, yes.

Mr. Field: This was a issue for the veterinary hospital at Exit 17, where the sign they inherited fell in part on State right of way?

Chairman Jensen: They ended up moving it, but that was a State right of way.

Mr. Field: It doesn’t appear on the map to be on the Town right of way.

Mr. Mitchell: No, that is why there is a new drawing tonight. With this configuration we can only get it partially onto the property.

Mr. Edwards: At the Boulevard entrance, is there a curve?

Mr. Mitchell: Not on the inside.

Mr. Patricke: You have it designed for slope inward for water and snow?

Mr. Mitchell: There’s a catch basin here and when you hit the median it slopes toward the center, and there’s a catch basin in the center.

Mr. Patricke: And that’s per Tim Burley and Steve Barody’s review?

Mr. Mitchell: Yes, they want to be able to put snow in the center.

Mr. Edwards: Is that high enough? What if there is a lot of snow?

Mr. Patricke: It is whatever Steve wanted. What is the dimension on the center of the boulevard?

Mr. Mitchell: 16 feet, same as the travel lane.

Mr. Patricke: It doesn’t really look like that on here.

Mr. Edwards: It’s just a slight depression not a big dip. It’s 2%.

Mr. Patricke: We have a depression at Palmerton Heights larger than this and it’s working well there. I have a question. Is there lighting on this (sign)?

Mr. Mitchell: There’s lighting on the inside of the structure.

Mr. Patricke: This all comes under HOA?

Mr. Mitchell: Yes.

Atty. Auffredou: On the map that you intend to file, is there a reference to the deed restrictions and covenants?

Mr. Mitchell: I believe so.

Atty. Auffredou: There are 6 lots subject to that. I would recommend that the Board require that there be a notice on file with the subdivision map that references the deed restrictions on the properties and the maintenance of the common driveway.

Mr. Edwards: When you put that on there, reference both the lot numbers and the street addresses, because lot numbers disappear after the building takes place.

Atty. Auffredou: In Paragraph three of the agreement, I request you change the language from "deemed" to "shall be deemed."

Mr. Edwards: The SHIPO issue, is that closed?

Mr. Mitchell: Yes, at the last meeting.

Chairman Jensen: Anything else?

Mr. Field: I move that we grant final approval to the Preserve at Old Saratoga Road, contingent on Town Board approval of the sign location within Town right of way, Health Department approval, Final review by the Town Engineer, and that the final drawings include the notations for the covenant regarding the common driveway, including the street addresses. Final approval by the Town Attorney of the easements and other matters before him.

Mr. Zimmerman: Second.

Chairman Jensen: Discussion? Please poll the Board.

Mr. Edwards- Yes Mr. Zimmerman-Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dickinson: Yes

Chairman Jensen- Yes

Chairman Jensen: The conditions need to be addressed, and after we sign you have 60 days to file with the County.

Mr. Mitchell: What about a recommendation for the Town Board with regard to the sign placement?

Chairman: That’s a legal issue strictly to the Town Board.

Mr. Patricke: They will ask how you feel about the design of the sign.

Chairman: If someone wishes to open a discussion of the sign, we could do so.

Mr. Field: Are we looking for a comment in our minutes about the design, or a letter from us regarding our feeling about the placement?

Atty. Auffredou: Probably the latter, but I think you are implying that you approve. They may ask how you feel about the looks.

Mr. Field: Move to send a letter that our board is content with the looks of the sign as presented to us.

Mr. Zimmerman: Second.

Chairman Jensen: Discussion? Please poll the Board.

Mr. Edwards- Yes Mr. Zimmerman-Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dickinson: Yes

Chairman Jensen- Yes

Chairman Jensen: Motion for signature?

Mr. Zimmerman: Motion that the Chair and one other member sign the Mylars when they are presented.

Mr. Edwards: Second.

Chairman: All in Favor? All opposed? Motion carries unanimously.

II. Rourke Subdivision

Bill Rourke and Pat Van doren: Regarding the Joseph Subdivision to answer questions. After changes in the wetlands use, the plans are down to 11 lots from 14.

Mr. Field: These are Army Corps wetlands?

Mr. Van doren: Charlie Main delineated them.

Mr. Field: Have you done any soil work out there?

Mr. Rourke: We dug with the backhoe and found that the water table was more than 30 feet down.

Mr. Edwards: Where was that?

Mr. Rourke: Between lots 4 & 5.

Mr. Field: What soil did he find?

Mr. Rourke: Sand and then clay. He dug a little farther back and found clay.

Mr. Zimmerman: Per John Hamilton at Saratoga County, throughout the area you may find sandy surface soil but probably saturated high ground water tables with clay in the steep slopes. He was not sure, but suggested that there would be difficulty with wastewater treatment placement throughout the site.

Mr. Edwards: There is a DEC wetland in the back as well as what was flagged already.

Mr. Van doren: Yes, they are located and included in the calculations.

Mr. Edwards: These are approximate locations of buildings?

Mr. Rourke: There is an existing house on Lot 2 and a barn on Lot 6.

Mr. Edwards: A conventional buried septic on the house?

Mr. Rourke: Yes.

Mr. Field: There is an inconsistency: in one place it’s Rourke subdivision and in another it’s Joseph subdivision.

Mr. Edwards: Have the flag lots and the driveways been referred to the Town Engineer?

Mr. Patricke: Not until you refer it after review.

Mr. Van doren: There will be a drawn up easement on lots 7, 10 & 11.

Mr. Field: You have driveways on some steep slopes and crossing a stream. Do you plan to build bridges?

Mr. Rourke: Yes.

Mr. Field: Make sure you plan those to accommodate emergency vehicles.

Mr. Edwards: Have you included buffers?

Mr. Van doren: We have not looked into that yet.

Mr. Edwards: There are some requirements in the buffers for the wetlands.

Mr. Van doren: We will do 100 feet from the stream beds.

Mr. Zimmerman: How do we expect to have the shared driveways maintained? 2 & 9 have a shared portion as well.

Mr. Rourke: This is existing and Lot 9 will veer off from it.

Mr. Zimmerman: There is sophisticated language for long term maintenance agreements when there are shared driveways.

Atty. Auffredou: In other places there is a Homeowners Assoc., and they are not sure it that’s happening. Either have a HOA, or else apply to the Atty. General for an exemption to those requirements. He will be concerned about the layout and maintenance of those driveways. That’s a separate layer of review that the applicant will have to go through..

Mr. Edwards: The shared driveway is very steep going down to the stream and back. Can you get a 10% grade on that? You may have to build a retaining wall. Keep that in mind.

Chairman Jensen: Board, anything further?

Mr. Zimmerman: What else are you looking for at this point? Questions?

Chairman Jensen: Right.

Mr. Edwards: When does the perc test happen?

Mr. Patricke: The procedure has been before the environmental engineering begins.

Mr. Field: Especially with these soils.

Mr. Zimmerman: I would like to recommend that we have peer review by Saratoga County Soil and Water Conservation because of the slopes and the soil types in that area.

Mr. Patricke: How would that work?

Mr. Zimmerman: John Hamilton would make a recommendation to the applicant. He gets in contact with DEC in terms of the topography.

Mr. Patricke: He does that all the time?

Mr. Zimmerman: He indicated that he does.

Mr. Patricke: We should have him come up and do a presentation, because I didn’t know he did that.

Mr. Zimmerman: I contacted him myself because I felt that this set a precedent because it’s in the AG district.

Mr. Field: We are encroaching on this type of soil more and more as the Town gets crowded.

Mr. Zimmerman: They will recommended to the applicant and copy the Town Board on whether the project should move forward. Motion that we refer the Joseph Subdivision to Saratoga County Soil and Water conservation district and request peer review on the project, so that we may take the finding into consideration.

Mr. Dickinson: Second.

Chairman Jensen: Discussion? Please poll the Board.

Mr. Edwards- Yes Mr. Zimmerman-Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dickinson: Yes

Chairman Jensen- Yes

Chairman Jensen: How do we make a formal request?

Mr. Zimmerman: I will check but I think it will be a letter from the Chair summarizing the motion and including the packet, as much as we have.

Mr. Edwards: The perc test will have to wait til spring?

Mr. Patricke: Deep hole tests are more important, but either way, early Spring.

Mr. Zimmerman: Did Charlie Main do any deep well tests?

Mr. Rourke: No.

Mr. Patricke: When we do, they have a soil scientist and the Town Engineer observe them.

Mr. Edwards: On the shared driveway, please check the sight line to the East if you haven’t already done so.

Chairman Jensen: We will not be prepared for a public hearing next month with this referral.

Mr. Patricke: Correct.

Chairman Jensen: Would this recommendation or comments be back to us by our next meeting on the 26^th?

Mr. Zimmerman: I have no indication on the turn around time. What’s the timeline with regard to the Attorney General?

Atty. Auffredou: Depends upon how they proceed, HOA or not. They should have initial correspondence very soon.

Chairman Jensen: In addition to the normal submission to Mr. Patricke, public hearing would also require 7 copies of the layout to send to other interested agencies. Any questions of us?

Mr. Rourke: Don’t believe so, thank you.

Garry Robinson, representing Muhammed Badruddin. This subdivision is located on Fort Edward Road, right next to Westgate Estates. We have been here twice for concept plan, and the project had been put on hold. Since things are moving forward with Westgate Estates, we have decided to get going again. There are two points of access on Fort Edward Road, with a lot in between. We have a 49 lot subdivision, the last lot on the back being large. There is a loop with a little dead end at the back anticipating a loop from there to here. Sight distance is not good from the higher access point so the driveway was moved down to the other. Test pits were done some time ago, with the Health Department. The locations are not shown on the plan, but it does indicate which lot they were dug on.

The soils are pretty good, similar to Westgate. Models show a little high in some places, but most are suitable for an on-site system. Lot 49 has a 14 inch and 44 models high water tables, that’s where there were wetlands delineated. All the flagging on the wetlands are still out there. Topo was done, access are high and dry. I don’t know where the SEQR is.

Mr. Patricke: We want a new one.

Mr. Robinson: We sent away to DEC and there are no endangered species, classified streams or heritage sites. Though the lots vary is size, they all comply with zoning. We used R-2. Roadways would be to Town specs, we have one low area for storm water. We had talked about a T turnaround at the end of the dead end, but if not we’ll just stop the loop there.

Chairman Jensen: What is your interest for lot 50, further development?

Mr. Robinson: We hope so, in the future.

Mr. Patricke: Shouldn’t it be 49?

Mr. Robinson: We can have 49 if the 50^th is non jurisdictional, no water and sewer.

Mr. Field: You would have to have two phases then.

Mr. Robinson: Not with no intentions on the 50^th lot.

Mr. Field: Saratoga County Soil survey recommends no basements with the soil types in that area.

Mr. Robinson: The soil surveys we have are much more accurate. It is nice sand. We may have to do systems to slow the perforates down. County soil survey is usually right on the road, but not further back. This is more research than what the County has done.

Mr. Field: Very well, but this says that it is not suited for basements etc., I want to hear that its significantly different, since we are bringing a lot of water in site. The South Park Baker subdivision created a lot of problems, so convince me that this one is very different.

Mr. Robinson: We have a soil scientist, Jim Meacham and others, including Joe, who all saw these test pits.

Mr. Zimmerman: Is this in the plume?

Mr. Robinson: At our parcel , there may be 12 lots in the center. I don’t have an exact map, but we’ve overlaid it and it does run over a few lots in the middle. We plan to propose what we did in Westgate, whether they’re exactly in the plume or not.

Mr. Zimmerman: You mean the ventilation system?

Mr. Robinson: The vent system.

Chair: With the language in the deeds?

Mr. Robinson: Don’t know it I’d go that far.

Mr. Patricke: The Health Department will want it.

Mr. Robinson: The Health Department has a very clear line as to which lots are affected by the plume.

Mr. Zimmerman: Do you plan to have basements?

Mr. Robinson: Don’t see any reason why not.

Mr. Zimmerman: What did Diehl have?

Mr. Robinson: Diehl can have basements. They drilled 20 feet without water in there. Single family with wells. I don’t think they’ll be custom homes or anything.

Mr. Field: What do you propose on the three lots with high water?

Mr. Robinson: We can’t do fill systems in a development. Once we get the wetlands delineated, we may change the lot lines a little.

Mr. Field: The only other thing I had was the sight distances. Going North, the distance to that hill is blocked by a telephone pole and two signs. You can still see 100 yards in each direction, but the numbers on your map seem wrong to me.

Mr. Robinson: I did them, so I am pretty confident. I measured from ten feet back, with a roll-o-wheel, so I think it’s right. This was Feb 4 and it went to the County because it’s a County road. Everyone agrees it’s a better location for the road. At 40 mph, left is 365 and right is 470.

Mr. Zimmerman: What’s the proposed strategy for the storm water management area?

Mr. Robinson: Not much thought on that yet, but it’s steep there and a little bank will be cut out. It will be out to the front. There’s a little stream. In Westgate there are culverts in the wet areas. That’s a wet area coming into this parcel.

Mr. Zimmerman: What about a long term maintenance agreement on any basins?

Mr. Robinson: We’d like to avoid a HOA, DEC says the Town will end up owning the basins sooner or later. If we have to have an HOA, we will.

Mr. Zimmerman: We tell you right now the Town doesn’t want them. HOA was in place for the maintenance of that.

Mr. Robinson: If that’s what we have to do then we will, but we are draining Town roads so I don’t think it should be like that. But if that’s what’s being done, we’ll do it.

Chairman Jensen: You can go next month and convince the Town Board.

Mr. Edwards: Is this connected to the park?

Chairman Jensen: Westgate is.

Mr. Patricke: You will have to go to the Town Board to decide whether we take fees or land in lieu of fees, or both, for your rec fees.

Mr. Robinson: I don’t think we actually border the park.

Mr. Field: Not on this tax map.

Mr. Patricke: While we are talking about things you need to know, the Town is talking tonight about policy on where water will be available and if it will be available, and this parcel will be subject to that decision. On the short term, there is no assurance that there will be water available.

Mr. Robinson: Didn’t GE pay some money to provide water to sites affected by the Caputo dump sites?

Mr. Patricke: Just making this clear.

Mr. Edwards: This property is in a water district not currently provided with water.

Mr. Patricke: Correct. There is concern about what to do as we have limited reservoir capacity.

Atty. Auffredou: There is an option to exercise for another 1 million gallons and discussion on the distribution of it, and other options for increasing supply.

Chair: Any questions?

Mr. Robinson: No. I just wanted to let you know that we were back in business. We’re going to start with a surveyor.

Mr. Patricke: On the adjoining property of Westgate is there an identified place to connect the roads on the two properties?

Mr. Robinson: It’s right here.

Mr. Patricke: If we would put in on that one why not put it on this one?

Mr. Robinson: You want to continue this road and split lot 50?

Mr. Patricke: I think it defeats the intent of the code of the spot is on the lot next door and not on this lot.

Mr. Robinson: I thought it could not be counted on that Westgate would be developed. Could we show it as an undeveloped road?

Mr. Patricke: Maybe the configuration of lots is not the best use of the lot, in conjunction with the lot next door.

Mr. Robinson: We could move the big lot to the top and put the lots building along the road at the bottom.

Tom Field: There is potential for build out and a stub street. What’s the point of two stub streets?

Mr. Robinson: I agree, it would be best to draw them together. I am guessing that anyone who buys in Westgate will not want those to be connected.

Chairman: We do not have sketch plan approval in the code, but if you desire we can poll the board.

Mr. Edwards: I have no strong objections.

Mr. Zimmerman: I think we need to be ready for the Westgate stipulations to be applied.

Mr. Field: My concerns were the soils and Mr. Robinson seems to be a step ahead of me with the test pits.

Mr. Dickinson: No concerns.

Chairman Jensen: It appears there are no burning objections.

Mr. Robinson: We do need updated SEQR.

Chairman Jensen: Yes.

Mr. Edwards: We need copies of any letters from DEC, County.

Chairman Jensen: Mr. Patricke, anything to add?

Mr. Patricke: The next meeting is the 26^th in February due to the holiday

Motion to adjourn was made at 8:30p.m. by Mr. Zimmerman and seconded by Mr. Field.

Respectfully submitted,

Tricia Andrews

Recording Secretary

Cc: Zoning Board, Town Board, Town Clerk, Supt. of Highways, Building Inspector, Assessor, Saratoga County Planning Board