Planning Board
Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
The regular meeting of the Pla1ing Board, Town of Moreau, County of Saratoga
and State of New York was held in the Town Office Building, 61 Hudson Street,
South Glens Falls, New York on March 20, 2006
Planning Board members attending the meeting were: Chairman Peter Jensen,
Ronald Caulin, Kenneth Dixon, onald Zimmerman, Tom Field, James Edwards, Gary
Dickinson, Joe Patricke an Martin Auffredou.
Meeting was called to order by hairman Jensen at 7:00 pm.
Chainnan Jensen - asked the Board to review the minutes.
Mr. Dixon- Motioned to approve
Mr. Zimmerman - 2nd the motion
Mr. Field abstains, motion carried
Chairmen Jensen - Do I have a motion to reopen the Westgate Estates public
hearing?
Mr. Field - Motions to reopen the public hearing for Westgate Estates at 7:05
pm
Mr. Dixon - 2nds the motion.
Motion carries.
Westgate Estates Public Hearing Continued
Chairman Jensen - Mr. Robinson briefly describe your project.
Gary Robinson - This is a 60 lot subdivision, the entrance is off Ft. Edward
Road, backs up to the park, there will be onsite sewage disposal, storm water
collection and handled on site.
Chairman Jensen - Are there an questions from the audience for this
applicant?
No, then we will continue on to t e EAF.
Mr. Auffredou -Planning Board ants to take action, there was a presentation
by DOH, my recommendations is to, allow Joe and me to prepare a findings
statement, and I would like you to have that at the time you do the EAF. You may
or may not want to add some restrictions.
Chairman Jensen - Table this till when?
Mr. Auffredou- I will be away on April 17th and I would like to be here when
you review the EAF.
Mr. Patricke - Perhaps we could change the date till April 24?
Chairman Jensen - We will not close the public hearing?
Mr. Field - Motion to table the Westgate Estates public hearing until April
24.
Mr. Dixon - 2nds the motion
Mr. Robinson- Do we need anything, perhaps a letter?
Mr. Auffredou- That would be fine, if you like; I don't think we need to do
anything else with DOH.
Motion carries.
Chairman Jensen - Is there a motion?
Mr. Dixon- Motions to change the date of the next meeting to April 24.
Mr. Dickinson - 2nds the motion.
Motion carries.
II. Stonegate Holdings Public Hearing
Mr. Bill Rourke - Bill and Carolyn Johnson purchased 100 acres across from
T-Bird golf and want to build three houses. This is a 4 lot subdivision, in an
R5zone, all lots are over 5acres, and the horse farm will remain. It has good
road access.
Chairman Jensen- Are there any question for this applicant?
Board are there any questions?
Mr. Field- Was the sign posted?
Mr. Rourke- Yes, but we did move it to a better location.
Chairman Jensen - Any questions?
Mr. Edwards - Any soil tests?
Mr. Rourke- No, but we think we can put in a septic.
Mr. Edwards - Is there a water table issue?
Mr. Rourke - We are building on the higher grades, no wetlands on the 3 lots.
Chairman Jensen - Board any questions? No, then we will review the EAF.
Mr. Zimmerman - I make a motion for a negative declaration for the Stonegate
Holdings.
Mr. Dixon - 2nds the motion.
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin - Yes Mr. Field- Yes
Mr. Edwards-Yes Mr. Dixon - Yes
Chairman Jensen- Yes
Mr. Zimmerman - Yes
Mr. Dickinson - Yes
Motion carries
Chairman Jensen - Public hearing is closed at 7:21 pm.
Mr. Zimmerman - I make a motion for a negative declaration for the Stonegate
Holdings.
Mr. Dixon - 2nds the motion.
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin-Yes Mr. Field- Yes Mr. Zimmerman - Yes Mr. Edwards-Yes
Mr. Dickinson-Yes Mr. Dixon -Yes Chairman Jensen - Yes
Motion carries.
Chairman Jensen - Board what would you like to do?
Mr. Patricke - The recommendation from Saratoga Planning Board is that it is
an agriculture district and it is approved.
Chairman Jensen - Board
Mr. Field - I motion to grant preliminary approval for Stonegate Holdings.
Mr. Edwards - 2nds the motion.
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin Mr. Dickinson - Yes Mr. Field -Yes Mr. Dixon-Yes
Mr. Zimmerman - Yes Mr. Edwards-Yes Chairman Jensen -Yes
Motion carries.
Mr. Zimmerman - I make a motion to waive the requirement for separate meeting
to approve the preliminary and finals approval.
Mr. Dixon - 2nds the motion.
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin - Yes Mr. Dickinson-Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dixon-Yes
Mr. Zimmerman -Yes Mr. Edwards-Yes Chairman Jensen - Yes
Motion carries.
Mr. Field- I motion to approve the final plat for the Stonegate Holdings.
Mr. Caulin - 2nds the motion.
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin- Yes Mr. Dickinson - Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dixon-Yes
Mr. Zimmerman - Yes Mr. Edwards- Yes Chairman Jensen -Yes
Motion carries.
Mr. Field- I move that the Chairman and one other member sign the Mylar's when
they are presented.
Mr. Dixon - 2nds the motion.
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin-Yes Mr. Dickinson-Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dixon-Yes
Mr. Zimmerman-Yes Mr. Edwards- Yes Chairman Jensen-Yes
Motion carries.
Mr. Patricke - After the Mylar's are signed you have 60 days to file with
Saratoga County.
III. Leonelli's Apartment Complex Public Hearing 7:30 pm
Mr. Gary Robinson - reviews the site, it is located on Harrison Avenue the
site is 31 acres, and it is zoned UR which is multifamily, 1 or 2 family
residential. This site will have 8 apartments per acre with 1 main road through
the project. Then there will be small neighborhoods, zoning regulations are lots
125' wide and 125' deep. All buildings are within the setbacks, there are some
Army Corp wetlands on the stream. The site is fairly flat, about 5' elevations,
to avoid the wetlands we are staying away from the stream. Some of the units
will have garages; the units will be 1 and 2 bedrooms. As part of the project we
are providing a line down to the Industrial Park, sewage disposal will be
collected on site to a pump stations and then pumped to Van Buren this is very
close to being finalized. We have the storm water preliminary plans but they are
not finalized.
Alanna Moran with Creighton Manning Engineering, LLP will report on the
traffic study. There will be 210 more trips in the am and 265 more pm trips; all
intersections are up to this amount of traffic. Based on local travel patterns
the intersection capacity will be A or B level after the build they will remain
A or B perhaps C. No level of service impact is required.
Mr. Robinson- The two projects that were mentioned is this one and the fact
that the owner has an adjoining property but is not developing that property at
this time.
Chairmen Jensen- Any questions?
Hillary Chase-I live at 87 Harrison Ave, directly across the street from the
entrance, we have 3 children, I am nervous about the school zone and who is
going to control it, there are no sidewalks.
Mr. Robinson-There will be side walks down to the school from our property.
Ms. Chase- Are there crosswalks anywhere.
Mr. Robinson-We haven't talked about it.
Mr. Edwards-There must be a crosswalk from sidewalk to sidewalk, is there a
sidewalk on the other side of the street?
Jim Boucher- I live at 83 Harrison Ave, I have the same concern, the traffic
is not controlled, what about the community center, did you take that into
account?
Ms. Moran- The total is 210 trips during peak hours.
Mark Ficher- I live at 85 Harrison Ave, what are the speed limits?
Ms. Moran- The speed limits would not increase.
Ms. Chase-Will there be a turning lane or a light?
Pat Hughes-I live at 98 Harrison Ave, I have a hard time getting out of my
driveway, how will others get out?
Ms. Moran-The trips aren't high enough.
Mr. Davis-Did they include the school bus activities, your estimates are
really low.
Ms. Moran-There are 115 at peak am and 210 peak pm.
Mr. Robinson-These are peak hour numbers.
Mr. Davis-What's our traffic for the whole day with the community center and
the apartments.
Ms. Moran- That is including both.
Karen Fiore-we live on Harrison Ave and not on Harrison Ave Extension, the
school is talking about adding on, and buying more buses, and the community
center. When I leave for work it takes a good 10 to 15 minutes to get across the
Hudson/Harrison intersection. The junior high is very busy.
Ted Bean-What are the peak hours?
Ms. Moran- 7:30-8:30 am and 4:15-5:15 pm
Ted Bean-Any count before 7pm the mill gets out at 3:30?
Ms. Moran- Took daily traffic counts for 1 week, 2-6pm and they didn't vary
usually 115 vehicles.
Ted Bean-What days did you do the count?
Mr. Moran- May 25 &26.
Jennifer Ficher-This is going to deplete the value of my house, the traffic
will be awful, and can we stop this?
Chairman Jensen-The Town Board or Planning Board have to have good and sufficient reasons not to approve the plan, DOH, DPC look at all of the information and make a determination it maybe difficult.
Mr. Chase-The junior high is very busy, would like to try to see you get
through at 8:15am.
Mr. Ficher-Did you record the speeds?
Ms. Moran- The speed is 40mph on Harrison Ave
Doris Andrejkovics -15mph school zone.
Ms. Chase-What about construction trucks?
Mr. Robinson-There would be construction traffic, but we could work on the
timing of the trucks.
Mr. Boucher-Have the schools been notified, will they be adding a crossing
guard?
Ted Bean-Were all the cars counted, east bound and north/south?
Ms. Moran-Every car gets counted.
Ted Bean-What's the count of pedestrian traffic, there are no sidewalks in
front of the school.
Ms. Fiore-The road is too narrow for sidewalks.
Anthony Havens-Roads are too narrow and you can't walk down Harrison atpeak
hours, it is way too narrow and this is a major concern.
Mr. Ficher-I have been hit on the road, and I received a ticket for walking
against the traffic. My children have almost got hit, they literally have to
jump away from the traffic, the Town line starts after the school, SGF police
don't patrol past the school, how are you going to put sidewalks in, and slow
down the traffic?
Mr. Havens- With the snow banks it makes the road narrower.
Ms. Fiore-The elementary school is at capacity, they need to enlarge the
school and what happens to our taxes?
Ted Bean-The sidewalks as it crosses property who is responsible by the
apartments, and UR zone is 1 and 2 family homes?
Mr. Robinson-Multifamilies also, sidewalks around the apartments are our
responsibility for sidewalks to be maintained.
Ms. Hughes-The road needs to be widened doesn't seem to be a lot of property.
Ms. Moran-The existing road is sufficiently wide enough.
Ms. Hughes-I walk a lot, and I have to go on the left hand side.
Ms. Fiore-What about county vehicles, trucks and school buses.
Ms. Moran-The counter does recognize the design width of the vehicles.
Ms. Ficher- What about school busses stopping and backing up traffic?
Ms. Moran- There would be more traffic.
Ted Bean-What are the counts at Harrison and Hudson during the peak hours?
Ms. Moran-There is a peak of 520, and 330 in the afternoon.
Andrew Havens- What are drainage, retaining pond, water flows west to east on
this property how are you going to change that?
Mr. Robinson-Water table is 8" in the back on November 2005.
Mr. Havens- But it drops more than 5', our property drops more than 5'.How
far back from property line are the buildings?
Mr. Robinson-3D' average
Mr. Havens-How many stories?
Mr. Robinson-They will be built on slabs and then 1 and 2 stories.
Ms. Chase-How long to build?
Mr. Robinson-That would be market driven, could take up to five years.
Mr. Boucher- What type of people are you hoping to attract?
Mr. Robinson-They are 1 and 2 bedroom units, so young couples or couples
retiring.
Mr. Boucher-What about the price range?
Mr. Robinson-Maybe $1000
Dick Hughes-How will they be heated, gas or electric? I had a really tough
time getting NiMo to get gas to my property.
Mr. Robinson-The complex won't take your gas, they would put a larger pipe in
to the complex, and then maybe a small one to your place.
Mr. Boucher-How many variances have been submitted with this application?
Mr. Robinson-No variances, per zoning.
Mr. Havens-Is there some sort of protection that you will finish the project?
Chairman Jensen-We can't force anyone to build anything, we review what is
submitted, and make sure that they follow the Town codes.
Mr. Chase-Zoning in the area is all single families; it doesn't seem to
conform to this.
Chairman Jensen-It does conform to the Town zoning.
Ms. Fiore-What are the setbacks off Harrison Ave.
Mr. Robinson-45'setback
Ms. Fiore-We would have to look at the back of the apartments?
Doris Andrejkovics -Will there be trees between building and the road.
Mr. Robinson-Can put something together.
Ted Bean-Behind the school in the spring there is 3" of water, shouldn't you look in the spring?
Mr. Robinson- We did look in the spring.
Mr. Bean-There is standing water, doesn't that make it a wetland.
Mr. Robinson-We had scientist look at the wetlands.
Ms. Ficher-I have two sump pumps in my basement and they are running
constantly for 9 months.
Mr. Robinson- The apartments will be built on slaps so we won't need pumps.
Ms. Hughes-On the first plans weren't there two roads?
Mr. Robinson-Originally we had 1 entrance and looped the road around, blvd,
style.
Ms. Chase-We have water in our basement is there any chance it will get
worse?
Mr. Robinson-There will be underground drains, sewer and water lines which
will be lined with stones and drained to the back; your ground water may go
down.
Doris Andrejkovics -Underground river, where is it going to drain?
Mr. Robinson- It will not create any water, there will be under drains to the
streams, it may become stabilized.
Ms. Hughes-Where does the water drain to?
Mr. Robinson-Near Sisson and Bluebird.
Mr. Havens-Are they going to be fenced in?
Mr. Robinson-There will be buffer zones, fencing haven't thought about.
Ms. Chase-How many more meetings or is this the last time?
Chairman Jensen-There will be at least one more public hearing, we are asking
the Board to table this to next meeting.
Ms. Ficher-How far has the Board gone to approve or disapprove?
Chairman Jensen-As a Board, our allegiance is to no applicant, we look to see
if the project conforms to the Town codes and the zoning and other government
agency guidelines. Then we will make our decision.
Ms. Ficher-Just wanted your thoughts on septic sewer to Van Buren?
Mr. Robinson-The force main along parcel Van Buren is close to property would
be in the public right-of-way.
Ms. Ficher-You would tear up the road?
Mr. Robinson-Would be digging a trench on our property, crossing under the
road and tap into the other side.
Ms. Ficher-What about debris, dust, mud and how long will it take before you
are done?
Mr. Robinson-Storm water, erosion and sediment clean up everyday, trenching
maybe less than a day and then back filled.
Ms. Ficher-How do the trucks get cleaned?
Mr. Robinson-Wash the vehicles and put large stones at the entrance to knock
the dirt off the bottom of the trucks before they leave the site.
Ms. Ficher-Who is going to patrol area, what's going to happen to the tax
base?
Mr. Dickinson-The State police or sheriff will patrol.
Mr. Ficher-What is the traffic going to be like?
Chairman Jensen-The concern with traffic violations is with the sheriff.
Mr. Bean-What about lighting?
Mr. Robinson-The buildings are faced to the center and lighting will also be
faced that way.
Ms. Ficher-Do units have back doors?
Mr. Robinson-Yes
Mr. Boucher-What about cars leaving with their headlights on?
Chairman Jensen-Planning Board any questions?
Mr. Edwards-Will storm water management be put on the plans?
Mr. Robinson-Yes
Chairman Jensen-I believe that we discussed the traffic study including
Harrison Ave and Rt. 9, would like that considered.
Mr. Robinson-It goes out like a web, we understood only the locations we did,
we will do more.
Mr. Edwards-Yes, the study should include Hudson and Harrison, that area is a
nightmare. We need more information, maybe a signal analysis.
Mr. Field-The traffic count missed the bus traffic, input from superintendent
of education, or principle with their ideas to minimize impact on the area, and
what can be done about sidewalks? The entrance design doesn't show the double
boulevard entrance on plans, are these private roads?
Mr. Robinson-There will not be Town roads.
Mr. Field-The widths and design must be reviewed by the emergency squad and
fire department. And you will get us a lighting plan?
Mr. Robinson-Yes
Mr. Zimmerman-What about dumpsters screened or fenced in and what about snow
removal?
Mr. Robinson-It will be a private firm, haven't looked into it yet.
Mr. Edwards-What about storm water?
Mr. Robinson- We just started looking into it.
Chairman Jensen-Board any questions? Motion to table.
Mr. Auffredou-This is the first run through, we are going to be at this for
awhile, this may trigger a type 1 SEORA, may require an EIS. The district
extension is a 2 or 3 month process.
Mr. Edwards-There may be a couple of phases how will that affect the SEORA.
Mr. Auffredou-You would look at the whole project.
Chairman Jensen-Tim Burley is the consulting engineer for the Town.
Mr. Bean-Is this 1 phase or more, or 2 different projects.
Mr. Field-They have only 1 project at this time. Make a motion to table the
Leonelli's Apartment Complex public hearing.
Mr. Dickinson-2nds the motion.
Motion carries. Will continue at April 24th meeting.
IV. Luisa's Italian Bistro Site Review
Rich Cirrelli says the plan is the same, to use the gallery space as another
part of the restaurant.
Mr. Auffredou- States that Saratoga County has approved it.
Chairman Jensen-Board and questions?
Mr. Dixon-What about a sign?
Mr. Cirrelli- The Town & Country sign has been cut down, I will be back to
you about a new sign.
Chairman Jensen- We will review the EAF.
Mr. Zimmerman-Makes a motion to make a negative declaration for Louisa's
Italian Bistro.
Mr. Field-2nds the motion.
Roll Call:
Mr. Caulin-Yes Mr. Dickinson-Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dixon-Yes
Mr. Zimmerman-Yes Mr. Edwards-Yes Chairman Jensen-Yes
Motion carries.
Mr. Caulin-Makes a motion to approve the site plan.
Mr. Field-2nds the motion.
Mr. Edwards-Do you have plans for paving?
Mr. Cirrelli-Yes, if we decide to purchase the property we will be back.
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin-Yes Mr. Dickinson-Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dixon-Yes
Mr. Zimmerman-Yes Mr. Edwards-Yes Chairman Jensen-Yes
Motion carries.
V. Dr. Kyra haring Site Plan Review
Chairman Jensen-Do we have approval from Saratoga County?
Mr. Patricke-Yes, we have an approval.
Chairman Jensen-Board any questions?
Ms. Haring-What about a sign and fence?
Chairman Jensen- There is a sign ordinance for the Town, check with Mr.
Patricke.
Ms. Haring-Do I need a fence permit, should it be wooden?
Mr. Dixon- It should be a 6' stockade fence.
Mr. Edwards-You need to define the area for the fence.
Ms. Haring-The fence would be out the back door.
Mr. Field-Isn't there two fences?
Mr. Zimmerman- Will there be any overnight boarding?
Ms. Haring-I am not planning on overnight boarders.
Mr. Edwards-It is not a long term boarding?
Ms. Haring-No, it is not a long term boarding.
Mr. Auffredou-Kathy had a verbal conversation with Saratoga County and there
was a verbal approval.
Mr. Dixon-What about the dumpster, not in front of the business.
Ms. Haring-Beyond the stockade.
Chairman Jensen- EAF, motion
Mr. Field- Make a motion for a negative declaration for Dr. Kyra Haring
Mr. Dickinson- 2nds the motion.
Roll call:
Mr. Caulin-Yes Mr. Dickinson-Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dixon-Yes
Mr. Zimmerman-Yes Mr. Edwards-Yes Chairman Jensen-Yes
Motion carries.
Chairman Jensen-What do you want to do?
Mr. Dixon-Make a motion to approve with conditions of dumpster in the back,
and a 6' stockade fence.
Mr. Zimmerman- 2nds the motion.
Roll Call:
Mr. Caulin-Yes Mr. Dickinson-Yes Mr. Field-Yes Mr. Dixon-Yes
Mr. Zimmerman-Yes Mr. Edwards-Yes Chairman Jensen-Yes
Motion carries.
Mr. Patricke- See me on a sign and fence and before you open I will need to
inspect the site.
VI. Woodscape Subdivision Preliminary Plat Review
Dave Michaels of Michaels Group reviewed the plans. This is Phase II, this
was put on hold until the Town Board went forward with the water. Michaels Group
would provide funding for the loopin~, just waiting for signature. We would like
to request a public hearing for April 24th .
Chairman Jensen- Do we need to revisit SEQRA?
Mr. Auffredou-Yes, it couldn't hurt.
Mr. Patricke-We would need a new EAF done.
Mr. Auffredou- This is correct, the Town Board and Michaels Group the water
district is almost done, there is a contract for the water tank, and it has been
awarded.
Mr. Edwards- Brings the water from Reynolds to Reservoir?
Mr. Michaels-Yes
Mr. Auffredou- They are responsible for about 800'.
Mr. Edwards-What type of homes?
Mr. Michaels-Same as in Phase I
Chairman Jensen-Any questions Board?
Mr. Field-Has there been an issue with the entrance?
Mr. Michaels-Haven't heard anything yet.
Chairman Jensen- Board any questions? Mr. Patrick?
Mr. Zimmerman-I make a motion for a public hearing for April 24th for
Woodscape Subdivision.
Mr. Dixon-2nds the motion.
Motion carries.
VII. Cingular Wireless Site Plan Review
Chris Bevins from Infinigy Engineering, planning to put up new panels for
better reception for people along Rt. 9. The construction is currently compiling
with FAA and EAF.
Chairman Jensen-Can we use a short form EAF?
Mr. Auffredou-A long form, Town Board will do a SEQRA.
Chairman Jensen-Do they need to do it twice?
Mr. Auffredou-Yes, 2 different issues, they will need a special use permit
too.
Chairman Jensen- You will need a long form EAF.
Mr. Patricke- There are some issues, on your site plan the building is on the
septic system, issues on fencing and part of the land we are leasing, you need
to coordinate with Mike Shaver.
Mr. Auffredou- I have a little concern about having a public hearing with out
the lease. Unless we get a letter from the Town Board or Supervisor.
Chairman Jensen-There will be a public hearing on contingency of a letter of
authorization or a signed lease.
Mr. Bevins-I will have everything by April 14th.
Mr.. Dixon-Make a motion for public hearing for Cingular Wireless on April
24th
Mr. Field-2nds the motion.
Motion Carries.
VIII. Chestnut Holdings Group, LLC Sketch Plan Review
Steve Rutkey from Earthtech is representing Sylvia Friedman. They did a
feasibility study for residential building or cluster subdivision on 70 acres,
about .6 miles south of 197 & 32 intersections, on Rt. 32. Cluster arrangement
of 12 lots, with the zoning allowed more density.
Chairman Jensen- You need to subtract the wetlands from your calculations.
Mr. Rutkey- The road is 1750', your code is 1000', do I need a variance?
Chairman Jensen-You need to contact the Highway Superintendent.
Mr. Edwards-Thank you for tying a cluster versus a conventional.
Mr. Rutkey-Needs to be a fair balance.
Mr. Edwards-You may not get approval this way.
Mr. Field-conservation easement, but haven't had luck with this, some sort of maintenance plan, don't want it to be abandoned. Do like your idea of buffering the front, think clustering makes sense.
Mr. Rutkey- This is premature until I look at the wetlands.
Mr. Field-Need to look at soils, very dense soil there.
Mr. Zimmerman-What is the process to submit to the county for review, what is
the ag district and who looks at it.
Mr. Patricke-Required state form on R5 zone. Are you referring to the fact
that we are using farm land?
Mr. Zimmerman- Is the subcommittee task force looking at the Master plan?
Mr. Patricke-I haven't heard of anything different.
Chairman Jensen-It is in appropriate for the Board to tell them to wait.
Mr. Rutkey-Easements to connecting lands, have some good ideas.
Mr. Auffredou-Maybe a home owners association.
Mr. Patricke-Speak to Steve Barody about the roads.
Chairman Jensen-Any other questions?
Mr. Dixon-Makes a motion to adjourn.
Mr. Field-2nds the motion.
Meeting adjourns at 10:58pm
Respectfully submitted,
Faith Bouchard
Recording Secretary
CC: Zoning Board
Supt of Highways
Building Inspector
Assessor
Town Board
Town Clerk
Planning Board File
Saratoga County Planning Board
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