The regular meeting of the Planning Board, Town of Moreau, County of Saratoga and State of New York was held at the Town Office Building, 61 Hudson Street, South Glens Falls, NY 12803 at 7 p.m. on November 19, 2007.

Planning Board members in attendance were Chairman Peter Jensen, Ronald Zimmerman, Tom Field, Gary Dickinson and John Arnold.

Members absent: Jim Edward.

Others present: Joseph Patricke, Building Inspector and Martin Auffredou, Attorney for the Town.

The meeting was called to order by Chairman Jensen at 7 p.m. The minutes of the September 17, 2007 were approved.

The minutes of the October 15, 2007 needed the following changes:

Page 1022 a roll call was called for the Mr. Bondzinski. There were no nays and no abstentions.

Item 2 on the agenda, Omnipoint Communications, is postponed.

William J. Rourke: All driveways will be constructed by us. Driveway to 7 and 10 will remain private. I have provided a maintenance agreement for the driveways. I also moved the line between lots 8 and 9 to enlarge lot. There is an odd shaped wetland.

Chairman Jensen: Are there any questions or comments from the board?

Mr. Auffredou: I have not read the final copy; I ask that any approval tonight be subject to my last review of the deed, map and maintenance agreement. Generally I am fine with it.

Mr. Rourke: Okay. I will get the final agreement to you. I believe Joe has a copy.

Chairman Jensen: Mr. Patricke has provided us with a memo from Tim Burley concerning this project. He has reviewed the maintenance agreement and has no specific comments concerning that agreement. Any further questions, comments or concerns?

Mr. Arnold: I know we asked you to expand lot 8; do we still have our minimum lot width at the house for lot 9?

Mr. Rourke: Yes, 250 feet.

Chairman Jensen: Any further questions?

Mr. Zimmerman: When the property was flagged in March, was that by Charlie?

Mr. Rourke: Yes.

Mr. Zimmerman: Has DEC said anything about yeah we agree with the way he flagged it?

Mr. Rourke: I don't think we've had any comment back from them. They accepted Charlie's flag.

Mr. Zimmerman: Wouldn't we get a letter back?

Mr. Rourke: It was submitted; I never got a letter back.

Mr. Patricke: I've never seen a letter like that.

Mr. Zimmerman: The Chairman and I went to a training session at the county building from a gentleman from the DEC and I spoke to him after that and he said it is customary for them when they get a project they give the applicant something on paper back that says yeah we agree with the way it was flagged.

Mr. Rourke: I've never seen one.

Mr. Patricke: Who was that Ron? If you give me his name, I will contact him.

Mr. Zimmerman: Casey Holzworth, Bureau of Wild Life, 623-1241.

Chairman Jensen: They gave us that impression, but I've never seen one.

Mr. Patricke: Neither have I.

Chairman Jensen: He does wetlands for Saratoga County.

Mr. Patricke: I've never heard of him.

Mr. Zimmerman: They said they have been using some new map for wetlands and they have it has a trout stream and in some cases they look to have a bigger buffer.

Mr. Patricke: Is it on the approved map? I have the approved maps and it is not on the DEC approved maps.

Mr. Zimmerman: They consider these the approved maps.

Mr. Patricke: They can consider anything they want, but if it's not approved by the head of that division it's not improved. I will call Casey Holzworth and see what he is talking about.

Chairman Jensen: Board, any other questions or comments?

Mr. Patricke: I will call Mr. Holzworth tomorrow and get you any information I can. I will see if he needs to come down and look at it. He is more than welcome to come look at it.

Mr. Rourke: We have it all flagged and I thought we were through this. They were sent to DEC.

Mr. Zimmerman: He is saying if we sent it to DEC then we as a board should be getting a letter back.

Mr. Patricke: I have never honestly seen one.

Mr. Rourke: Apparently the norm is if you don't hear from them, apparently it's okay. It's a 9 lot subdivision with large lots. If DEC finds something, we'll hear from them.

Chairman Jensen: Board, let's do something.

Mr. Rourke: What did you have a question on Martin, the language of the right always?

Mr. Auffredou: The maintenance agreement, deed language and map that I haven't seen. I want the ability to review and if I think there are modifications that need to be made to those documents, that you'll make them.

Mr. Rourke: All right.

Mr. Field: I will move we give final approval to the Rourke Subdivision contingent upon satisfactory review of the map, deed description and maintenance agreement by the town attorney.

Chairman Jensen: Motion has been made. Is there a second?

Mr. Zimmerman: I would also ask that we make sure we follow up with Case Holzworth.

Chairman Jensen: Second?

Mr. Zimmerman: Second.

Chairman Jensen: Motion has been made to second.

Chairman Jensen: Further discussion? Would you poll the board?

Mr. Zimmerman: Yes Mr. Arnold: Yes

Mr. Field: Yes Mr. Dickinson: Yes.

Chairman Jensen: Yes

Chairman Jensen: Motion carries. Do I have another motion?

Mr. Field: I move that the Chairman and another member of the Planning Board sign the agreements, assuming satisfactory review by the town attorney.

Mr. Arnold: Second.

Chairman Jensen: Did you intend indicate the mylars?

Mr. Field: Yes.

Chairman Jensen: The motion has been made for the Chairman and one member of the Planning Board to send mylars when presented. Any further discussion? If not, call roll please?

Mr. Zimmerman: Yes Mr. Arnold: Yes

Mr. Field: Yes Mr. Dickinson: Yes.

Chairman Jensen: Yes

Chairman Jensen: Motion carries. Mr. Rourke, you do realize 60 days from the date of signature if not sent to Saratoga County you have to start over again?

Mr. Rourke: Yes.

Mr. Patricke: Let's talk about that for a minute. We have a holiday coming up this week, we have Christmas. When are you going to get the mylars in?

Mr. Rourke: I'll get them in tomorrow morning.

Mr. Rourke: The maps you have are completely different. You are going uphill as you go north from 98 to 102 about 6 feet. He had the driveways and the lots shifted to the south. They are more even with Route 9. They are the same basic lots shifted south.

Mr. Patricke: He is looking to schedule a public hearing for next month. Everything has shifted to the south about 400 to 500 feet.

Mr. Rourke: We are having 90 feet of access and then the driveways coming off. We are looking at 2 lots and then a balance of 55 acres.

Mr. Field: You still have a boulevard entrance?

Mr. Rourke: Yes. Zoning is 200 feet and we have 250 feet.

Mr. Field: The land to the north, what do you plan to do for access to that?

Mr. Rourke: I don't know.

Mr. Jim Caccavo: What I would like to do with it is probably come off the side near the back of that lot or come off of the cul-de-sac and then lead them into the vacant partial on the left. There is quite a bit of land on the south side.

Mr. Field: Avoid as much access onto Route 9 as possible.

Mr. Caccavo: I have no intentions of making any other entrances other than the boulevard entrance.

Mr. Patricke: Mr. Chairman they have provided us with maps and EAF for the 55 acres.

Chairman Jensen: We do have the EAF and revised drawings. If he is to ask us for a public hearing we have enough to send out a location map to involved and interested agents?

Mr. Patricke: I assure you Mr. Rourke can get me all the copies I need.

Chairman Jensen: As a courtesy, send a copy to DEC, Saratoga County and I like to send notices of public hearings to the school district so they are aware of what is going on.

Mr. Caccavo: They are going to be large lots, probably 10-12 acres. East and north are mostly wetlands. I had the property flagged. They took about 2 acres of wetland for the water line.

Mr. Field: Did you do any deep pits?

Mr. Caccavo: I did four.

Mr. Field: What is the nature of the soil?

Mr. Caccavo: It's called deer field soil. The first 1000 feet is real nice.

Chairman Jensen: Is it your intent to request a public hearing?

Mr. Rourke: Yes.

Chairman Jensen: Okay. We have a request from the applicant to schedule a public hearing on Old Saratoga Estates Subdivision for 12/17/2007.

Mr. Patricke: Are we still talking about that?

Chairman Jensen: Yes.

Mr. Patricke: Are you going to refer to Tim Burley at all?

Chairman Jensen: Yes.

Mr. Patricke: You authorize me to send it to Tim?

Chairman Jensen: Yes.

Mr. Patricke: We will need the easement language of the driveway for Martin to see.

Mr. Caccavo: Okay.

Chairman Jensen: Have you submitted to DEC?

Mr. Rourke: Yes.

Mr. Auffredou: Who's maintaining the driveway?

Mr. Caccavo: I have to find out what the specifications are. Maybe we ought to go for a cul-de-sac.

Mr. Patricke: A cul-de-sac is 160 feet in depth and you have to know where the rest of the road is going to go.

Mr. Caccavo: So you’re asking for maintenance. We're going to have to split it somehow.

Mr. Patricke: Who's your attorney going to be?

Mr. Caccavo: Probably Lebowitz.

Mr. Patricke: He's in Georgia. You need to get some proposed language for it.

Chairman Jensen: Request has been made. Do I have a motion as such?

Mr. Zimmerman: So moved.

Mr. Arnold: Second.

Chairman Jensen: Any further discussion? Motion for public hearing for Old Saratoga Estates Subdivision for 12/17/2007. All in favor aye.

All ayes.

Chairman Jensen: Opposed? Abstentions? Do I hear a motion for the Planning Board of Town of Moreau to adopt the role of lead agency for the SEQUR review for Old Saratoga Estates Subdivision?

Mr. Field: So moved.

Chairman Jensen: Motion has been made. Is there a second?

Mr. Dickinson: Second.

Chairman Jensen: Any further discussion? All in favor aye.

All ayes.

Opposed? Abstentions? Motion carries.

Does anyone on the Planning Board see the need for the letters to be sent certified mail?

Mr. Field: Not I.

Chairman Jensen: If not, can I have a motion to not send the notification letters by certified mail?

Mr. Field: So moved.

Chairman Jensen: Second?

Mr. Arnold: Second.

Chairman Jensen: Motion has been made to second. Any further discussions? All those in favor Aye.

All ayes.

Opposed? Abstentions?

Larry Clute: I had come in previously and discussed this with you. We have redone the homes and this is what we came up with.

Mr. Field: Two duplexes?

Mr. Clute: Yes.

Mr. Field: What kind of driveways are you using?

Mr. Clute: Blue stone at this point I am anticipating.

Mr. Field: What are the soils like?

Mr. Clute: Sandy, nice.

Mr. Field: Are you going to lease these properties or selling them?

Mr. Clute: I haven't really determined as of yet, but as it stands, I'd like to rent them.

Mr. Field: The shed and fencing are going?

Mr. Clute: Yes.

Chairman Jensen: Board, any concerns?

Mr. Zimmerman: Was there a size issue?

Mr. Clute: No.

Mr. Patricke: On the map, could you have him go through and put the building line?

Mr. Clute: Yes.

Chairman Jensen: He has more than 40 feet on highway?

Mr. Patricke: Yes.

Chairman Jensen: Is this currently one deed?

Mr. Clute: Yes.

Chairman Jensen: Any further questions or concerns?

Mr. Field: As long as you don't run into a problem with the septics getting into soils that are tough.

Mr. Clute: We are trying to pull the buildings as far forward as possible.

Chairman Jensen: Seeing as how in our subdivision regulations we do not have such a thing as sketch plan approval, we can always voice our concerns or comments to the applicant and he has the choice to go ahead or abandon. To be upfront and fair, informally there cannot be a vote of any kind. I will poll the board to ask if anyone is adamantly opposed to the project.

Mr. Zimmerman: No.

Mr. Arnold: No.

Mr. Field: No.

Mr. Dickinson: No.

Chairman Jensen: We cannot give you sketch plan approval as we don't have the authority, but no one is telling you to go away. We ask you meet code requirements and the decision is yours whether you wish to go forward or not.

Mr. Field: What is the topography like there?

Mr. Clute: It is flat in this general area, but as you progress here it drops off.

Mr. Field: What type of drop in topography do you have there?

Mr. Clute: In the developed area there is hardly any drop at all, it is very level and sandy, but as you progress further into the acreage it drops off dramatically. I'm building where the ground is level, it doesn't drop or slope. I can still get topos put in there. We can do a standard topo. We can come up with a 0 mark and then have them do elevation drops every 25 feet so you have an indication of how much it drops?

Mr. Field: Our standard is 2 feet.

Mr. Clute: Okay.

Mr. Field: I think it might be useful to us.

Mr. Patricke: Does he come back with that or do we go to preliminary review or what are we going to do from here?

Chairman Jensen: He has heard concerns, he wishes to update and then can come in for preliminary and at that hearing we will schedule a public hearing.

Chairman Jensen: Environmental assessment, the Board has the option of accepting short form or long form. What is your wish?

Mr. Zimmerman: Short form.

Chairman Jensen: The motion has been made for a short form EAF for the Clute Subdivision.

Mr. Field: Second.

Chairman Jensen: All in favor Aye.

All Ayes.

Opposed? Abstentions?

Motion carries.

Mr. Patricke: The Town Board last Tuesday agreed that the water and sewer districts and service offered to Mr. Leonelli. At that same meeting we discussed that we got a letter from the Town Board previously which I interrupted before people came to Planning Board they had to have some review by the Town Board as to whether or not they could get water. I believe that is no longer the process.

Mr. Auffredou: Correct.

Mr. Gary Robinson: I think the last time we were in here was a couple of years ago. This is located off Sisson Road. It is part of a subdivision some time ago. Mr. Leonelli has a contract on this property. This is similar to the apartments on Harrison Avenue. We propose an apartment complex a little smaller. The proposal is for 144 units. This is a concept plan. It would be privately owned, plowing by apartment complex. The roads would be paved.

Chairman Jensen: To town standards?

Mr. Robinson: I don't know.

Mr. Patricke: They have to be paved to town standards. I don't believe you'd be required to put wing walls on.

Mr. Robinson: Okay.

Chairman Jensen: Construction would be such to handle emergency vehicles?

Mr. Robinson: Of course. We are tapping into waterline on Bluebird road, Queensbury water. Sewer, there is a main in the street that runs in front of this. We talked to the Town Board previously. We would have a pump station located on this site.

Mr. Field: What are the soils like?

Mr. Robinson: We will do test holes. Apartments are on slabs. Parking requirement will be met. They will be 1 or 2 bedroom apartments. Just like Harrison. Some units come with garages. I'm just trying to get an idea. It is a little different from the last one.

Mr. Patricke: What are you going to do on the entranceway from Sisson Road? If it were a cul-de-sac, would it have a boulevard entrance.

Mr. Robinson: I'm not sure yet. We can still put a boulevard entrance.

Mr. Patricke: That infiltration basin where it is, I know we have work to do, one of the problems we have on that site is the soil is so tight the water just lies on the ground.

Mr. Robinson: If we were going to do anything there, we would make sure we would make sure we could get some rain down here.

Mr. Patricke: Will you have a club house?

Mr. Robinson: That is not planned.

Mr. Patricke: Maintenance garage?

Mr. Robinson: No.

Mr. Patricke: Pumping station?

Mr. Robinson: Yes.

Mr. Patricke: What about the traffic study done previously?

Mr. Robinson: The town consultant had reviewed previously.

Mr. Field: I would think we would want to review that in light of your specific proposal.

Mr. Robinson: This was in there. We did the worse case and best.

Chairman Jensen: This will need to be revisited and readdressed.

Mr. Patricke: Was the archeological done for both sites?

Mr. Robinson: Yes. I don't think we'll be next month, but we'll be working on it. Any comments?

Chairman Jensen: Obviously, ground water is going to be a big thing. We need to make sure everyone is updated on traffic and archeological.

Mr. Zimmerman: Do we want to notify the school?

Chairman Jensen: Before public hearing. Do you have any questions of us?

Mr. Robinson: I don't think so.

Chairman Jensen: We received a memo from Saratoga County on numbering lots and subdivisions.

Mr. Patricke: We caused that letter to happen.

Mr. Field: What did we do?

Mr. Patricke: On Garcia's property. Travis Mitchell called me up if we want health department bigger than 911, I said I don't care about health department, I want 911 numbers on it. I don't care about lot numbers.

Chairman Jensen: We received a letter from Mayor Finney get give everyone a heads up concerning Schermerhorn for apartments.

Mr. Patricke: Mr. Schermerhorn bought that land that was previously Jim Caccavo's and Charlie Moffit's on the corner of Fort Edward Road and Bluebird Road and has proposed to build 236 apartment units on that site. When he approached me I put the letter I had previously been given from the Town Board saying they needed to go there first and sent him to the Town Board. At the last meeting they said you ought to be at the Planning Board. He will be coming in to the Planning Board.

Mr. Field: Is that a UR zone?

Mr. Patricke: Yes.

Chairman Jensen: I received a notice of determination, draft. I reviewed it. We have an option. I think it addresses everything we were concerned about.

Mr. Auffredou: The decision is in draft form, you will be getting a copy of that this week or early next week. Sorry about the delay on that. Joe and I have been spending a lot of time on it.

Mr. Patricke: I have one more item. White Birch Estates Mobile Home Park has approval for 225 lots. On the entrance to that parcel, they have a large vacant area and they approached me and the Board, they would like to build a club house facility for the people in their park. It would enter and exit off that road, which is their private road. My question to the Board, I don't really see anything in the code that addresses that. Do you want to see it? What would you say I should do? It's not a rental unit.

Chairman Jensen: I think it's a good idea. What's the zone?

Mr. Patricke: R2.

Chairman Jensen: They're not creating a new lot.

Mr. Patricke: Correct.

Mr. Field: Are they suggesting parking?

Mr. Patricke: They haven't suggested anything yet. What course should they follow? I'm sure they'll submit whatever I request of them. I would ask for a site plan. It is on municipal water now. You are going to disturb enough land you're going to have to have a storm water report.

Mr. Zimmerman: Would it be helpful for you for us to take a look at it?

Mr. Patricke: That always helps. I was just looking if someone would object as to what law is followed here. I can suggest to them that is what we would like them to do.

Chairman Jensen: It's an existing lot. The area is already approved. They are not creating anything new other than the structure. It is not in a zone that automatically triggers site plan review. Personally, I don't see any reason for them to waste their time coming here.

Mr. Field motioned to adjourn the meeting at 8:45 p.m. and Mr. Arnold seconded.

The motion was passed unanimously. Next meeting December 17, 2007 at 7 p.m.

Respectfully submitted,

Missy Norton

Recording Secretary

cc: Zoning Board, Town Board, Town Clerk, Supt. of Highways, Building Inspector, Assessor, Saratoga County Planning Board.