Planning Board

Regular Meeting

April 24, 2006

The regular meeting of the Planning Board, Town of Moreau, County of Saratoga and State of New York was held in the Town Office Building, 61 Hudson Street, South Glens Falls, New York on April 24, 2006.

Planning Board members attending the meeting were: Chairman Peter Jensen, Ronald Caulin, Kenneth Dixon was absent, Ronald Zimmerman, Tom Field, James Edwards, Gary Dickinson, Joe Patricke was absent and Martin Auffredou.

Meeting was called to order by Chairman Jensen at 7:00 pm.

Chairman Jensen - asked the Board to table review of the minutes until next meeting.

Chairmen Jensen-Any questions?

Beth Coventry- Lives on Sisson Road, will there be an access road from Sisson into the complex? Will there be traffic control? You said that there would be 23 more children for the school district with this development; the size of the school district continues to grow. How many house, there is no way to control traffic. We've asked for traffic control, lights and sidewalks.

Andrew Haven - Harrison Avenue has two live quarries in the area, what kind of complaints about quarries blasting on Thursdays?

Mr. Robinson - On the plans it will say that you are within an area of active quarries.

Dan Styczynski - It has an impact Sisson Road, what about the EAF?

Chairman Jensen -The EAF is forth coming.

Mr. Edwards- We do look at the economic and property values.

Mr. Styczynski- This will be a burden on the Town.

Stuart Messinger - The applicant has used maximum density, I would like to present a letter to the Board that I wrote, but I would first like to discuss the points in the letter:

2. The traffic study, has it been done?

I believe that an environmental impact study should be done to look at the following things:

1. Health impact

2. Traffic impact

3. Drainage

4. School impact

Dr. McCarthy- This school district is 70 square miles and in the next 5 to 7 years there will be an increase of 7%, we are having a building condition survey done because the welfare and safety of the children is the most important thing to the district. The senior high has 1100 students, the middle school has 800 and the budget for this year is $7000 per student, the estimated number of students in the school district for 2014 is estimated at 4000.

Bonnie Garvey- Everyone needs to speak up, the people in the hallway can't hear.

Mark Ficher-I live on Harrison Avenue; I am looking for a report from the Army Corp of Engineers? Who did the soil sampling, the wetland studies, how wet and from the engineering what effect will that have on the ground?

Chairman Jensen- We turn all those questions over to the Town Engineer and we rely on his recommendations.

Mr. Ficher- Has the Board seen any Army Corp study?

Chairman Jensen- No

Gary Robinson -A soil scientist was with us, soil engineer comes with us and makes suggestions.

Mr. Ficher- Didn't you say you had the Army Corp there?

Mr. Robinson - No, it is Army Corp wetlands.

Mr. Styczynski- There are apartments available in the area, look at the newspaper.

Mr. Robinson - There is a demand for more apartments.

Ms. Coventry - Are these low income?

Mr. Robinson -These are for higher income.

Ms. Coventry - This is a real concern, the apartments going to be low income like the John Burke apartments in Glens Falls?

Mr. Robinson - $900 to $1000 monthly, it will be an upscale project, young married, new people.

Jim Boucher- You must have a business plan, who are the target tenants; you have to have a plan.,Does the owner have any other projects? Is he going to hold onto the apartments once they are rented?

Brian Hahn - Where are the people going to work?

Mr. Robinson -The apartments rent will be market driven.

Mr. Stanyczynski- Will these be rent controlled apartments, will there be government for lodging?

Mr. Robinson-We are putting up nice units.

Jim Bowman - What about sidewalks and lighting, walking is difficult, the Planning Board is the lead agency?

Chairman Jensen –Yes

Mr. Bowman - The school yard is wet, it is a major concern and we don't want the Henry Hudson apartments here in town.

Mr. Havens- Is he a builder or developer? Mr.Leonelli.

Mr. Robinson - He may need a partner or sell to someone else.

Pat Hughes - Is there anything else in the area that is like this, is this a new type of project? Where did zoning come from?

Mr. Field- The last zoning change was in 1988 or 1989 and there was support for urban residential because of the location to sewer and water that led to the selection of the area.

Ms. Hughes - We didn't think apartments would be in this area.

Ms. Ficher- Is there anything stopping Leonelli from putting up houses instead of apartments?

Chairman Jensen - He can do either houses or apartments.

Kevin O'Brien - What is the Towns forecast for the future, more apartments?

Chairman Jensen -They are having a masterplan review, may or may not change the zoning, and there is a public hearing on the master plan. The Board doesn't establish zoning - we look at projects and see that they conform to the Towns code. We have to have a good reason to turn them down, if the zoning allows it, each project takes the concerns of the neighbors and considers them.

Ms. Hughes - Do they take into consideration the economic impact?

Chairman Jensen –Yes

Chris Hughes - Will this have federal or state subsidies?

Ms. Coventry - There are a lot of negatives, schools, homes, environment, traffic and the community, seems to bring a concern to you as a Board. Is this going to be reconsidered?

Chairman Jensen -Public Hearings are held to get public input from citizens, this is only a small part of what we do.

Mr. Edwards -This echoes the concerns and we hear you.

Jim Ryan - Is it a Town road or private? It has a single access, and trucks can't turn around.

Chairman Jensen -The Fire department and EMS will review the plans before we decide.

Mr. Field- There will be a discussion with the school about sidewalks.

Dr. McCarthy-The safety issues is the main concern for the school, the sidewalks and buses.

Mr. Bowman - There are no sidewalks, the traffic is really heavy and my kids are grown now, but I am concerned about my in-laws who have to back out onto the rode.

Mr. Havens- Is this Phase 1 of a 2 phase project?

Mr. Robinson - There is a concept plan, but no plans to move ahead, the other property is not connected and is not phase II.

Mr. Havens- My property is between your two parcels.

Mr. Boucher - There are recurring themes, with the water will you require them to do more tests? Sometime other than November.

Chairman Jensen - It would have to come from the Town Engineer, he recommends to us, and we take that into consideration.

Mr. Boucher- Is he looking over runoff and storm water?

Mr. Ficher - Is the Town looking at the whole area, at possible changing the zoning?

Chairman Jensen - They are reviewing the master plan. Mr. Ficher - Is there a time plan?

Chairman Jensen - You will have to ask the Town Board, or attend a meeting. Mr. Valencore What is the positive about this project, will we lose the star program?

Mr. Robinson - Providing a need for people, the star tax would be special among homeowners.

Mr. O'Brien- Are we providing a need?

Mr. Robinson -A little bit of both, some will be local people, some will be from out of town, or commuters.

Mr. O'Brien -What is the impact on property taxes, can they be a burden?

Mr. Robinson - They will be upscale apartments.

Mr. O'Brien - Renters are a burden to a community.

Sheila Garveneau -We wanted a nice neighborhood, good schools, and we struggle with higher taxes and the schools are a real concern for us.

Ms. Ficher- It impacts us all, all negative issues, nothing positive, will this make the community grow and flourish?

Mr. Boucher- Look at it long term, this could change the whole dynamics of the area.

Mr. Bowman - Are they having their own water district? How many meters, one or one for each unit. Because if its one for the whole complex than it is not fair, it should be one meter for each unit. If they don't pay then there is a loss of $6000 each 6 months.

Mr. Robinson -The Town is extending district #1, we will not have our own district. There will be one meter at the entrance to the complex; the Town already has minimum sets for these.

Mr. Bowman - How can they have something in place?

Mr. Ficher-What about the water quality report, is the water supply going to support this growth?

Chairman Jensen - DOH will not approve this project if the capacity is not there.

Mr. Ficher - What about the traffic study?

Ms. Moran -A signal is not warranted at Rt9 and Harrison Avenue, it is a state road, and they usually won't put a light in

Chairman Jensen - Dr. McCarthy would that be catching traffic from the bus garage?

Dr. McCarthy-Yes, and we are under time constraints.

Ted Bean - Harrison Avenue and Main Street are the busiest and the traffic doesn't go out to Rt. 9.

Ms. Moran-NYS department of transportation, will it add 100 or more trips to an approach.

Mr. Bean - If we haven't counted the ones on Main Street.

Mr. Haas- Traffic can't make a left onto Rt. 9.

Mr. Messinger- About the discussion of traffic, yes the functions capacity is okay, but the criteria in the ordinance for the health, safety and welfare of the community, there is a need for the assessment of the design.

Mr. Boucher - Does this study account for the community center in their numbers?

Ms. Moran -We contacted the Town of Moreau and used the industry standards to get the numbers.

Mr. Ficher- Did you do a second study?

Ms. Moran - Yes, April 12 & 13.

Mr. Edwards - Did it increase the total volume?

Ms. Moran - Relatively, 60% of the am peak of 211 and 60% of the pm peak at 264.

Mr. Edwards - It does exceed 100 at the intersections? Ms. Moran - It doesn't exceed.

Ms. Ficher- I am a TA at the middle school, and that was a day before vacation. Mr. Boucher - Are the numbers a worse case scenario?

Ms. Moran - A worse case during each of the time periods. Chairman Jensen - Do I have a motion to table and continue again? Mr. Zimmerman - I make a motion to table this discussion and continue at the next meeting.

Mr. Field - 2nds the motion.

Motion carries.

Chairman Jensen - Council are we ready?

Mr. Auffredou - At the last Planning Board meeting Joe and I were to prepare findings to look at and consider as your reopened SEQRA, we weren't able to do it and I recommend that you table this to the next meeting.

Chairman Jensen - Comments on Westgate?

Supervisor Gutheil- Keep the hearing open, there may be Natural Resource damage claims and they need to be looked into.

Chairman Jensen -With advice from council we are not ready to make a recommendation.

Mr. Robinson - I have talked to Joe and Martin and I am willing to follow their recommendations, a venting system, maintenance, and a note in the deed, DOH says when SEQRA is approved they will approve the plans.

Chairman Jensen - Do I have a motion to table?

Mr. Dickinson - I make a motion to table westgate Estates until the next meeting.

Mr. Field - 2nds the motion.

Motion carries.

Dave Michaels -To review the 2nd phase there are 53 homes, 33 are full maintenance and 20 are conventional maintenance. There is a second entrance, moved the entrance to the left, no house is in front of it, overall community homeowners, and it will have street lights.

Chairman Jensen -The full maintenance dwellings will be for older couples?

Mr. Michaels - For empty nesters, people in their 50's, 60's or 70's, it is typically a two person home.

Chairman Jensen -Are there any questions?

Mr. Tardif - Are they 3/ acre lots?

Mr. Michaels -113 acre lots.

Mr. Tardif- The 30' buffer who owns it?

Mr. Michaels - The homeowners own it, there will be a no disturb, no clear area or non use area.

Mr. Tardif-Are your builders going to disturb this area?

Mr. Michaels- No, they are building the roadway.

Mr. Tardif- Is this project contingent on new water lines?

Mr. Michaels - DOH has given a conditional, no Occupancy Certificate until the water extension is completed.

Mr. Winnie-Will they have well points and Town water?

Mr. Michaels- The well points were for conventional lots to use for irrigation only. In Phase II - 33 maintained properties will have 1 well for irrigation; other homes are on the Town system.

Supervisor Gutheil- The irrigation issue may still be needed, report is due in 1 week or so.

Mr. Winnie-20 homes are conventional?

Mr. Michaels - The lots are all the same size and the houses will be ranch or 2 story.

Mr. Murphy-What is the time frame and starting date for development?

Mr. Michaels- Until the water improvement is made we won't be building.

Supervisor Gutheil - The notice of award, and notice to proceed on the storage tank have been sent out, next week they will start putting the lines in, maybe before the winter. The tank needs to be pained under certain condition and that may take a year or not.

Mr. Tardif -What is the timeline to start?

Mr. Michaels - Early summer.

Mr. Tardif - From the first home to the last?

Mr. Michaels -Around 2 years for the project to be built out.

Chairman Jensen - Board any questions?

Mr. Caulin - Do you have the April 8 letter from the engineer?

Mr. McCarthy- Yes, we have talked to the engineer and corrections are almost done.

Chairman Jensen -The wells need to be shown on the legend, note non waste water flows not into the sewers, final plans stamped, DOH variance on condition that public water is completed. Any questions Board?

Mr. Dickinson - The fire department will ask for a 5" connection.

Chairman Jensen - Have all the emergency services been able to look at this?

Mr. Ryan – No

Chairman Jensen - Submission to the agencies, EAF, threatened and endangered species has not been completed.

Mr. Auffredou - You can't make a conclusion before completing, you can leave that one question opened.

Chairman Jensen -We'll leave it for the next meeting to finish, any environmental concerns on this site? None okay. Do I have a motion to table?

Mr. Field - Motions to table the Woodscape Subdivision until next meeting.

Mr. Dickinson - 2nds the motion

Motion carries.

Chairman Jensen - Can't grant preliminary approval because we haven't finished the EAF yet.

Mr. Auffredou - The Board has the discretionary power if there is no reason to give both, let me give that a little more thought.

Chairman Jensen -We will entertain the idea with advice of council, we look forward to your DEC response, come back the third Monday in May.

Mr. Caulin -What about the variance they are asking for?

Chairman Jensen -After SEQRA.

Chris Bevin from Infinigy Engineering, planning to put up new panels for better reception for people along Rt. 9. The construction is currently compiling with FAA and EAF. I have photo simulations to pass around.

Chairman Jensen -Are there any questions?

Chris Hughes - I was notified for the public hearing only.

Mr. Edger -Do you have an installation at Exit 18?

Mr. Bevin - On the Fort Edward water tank.

Mr. Edger - Are there any health hazards?

Mr. Bevin- No

Mr. Edger - Will there be any other interference?

Mr. Hughes - Will it be on the river side or not?

Mr. Bevin- It will be on the back and to the left.

Mr. McCarthy - Do you have a documented review from DOH?

Mr. Bevin- No

Chairman Jensen -The FCC has said it is within its guidelines and has no health effects.

Dr. McCarthy- It is fully documented. Mr. Hughes - Are there health effects? Mr. Bevin - No danger.

Mr. Cottone - Will there be lightning strikes? Mr. Bevin- There are lightning rods.

Mr. Hughes -What is the Town's angle?

Mr. Bevin - We are in negotiations and I can't talk about it. It may decrease your taxes.

Mr. Edgerly-What are the negative aspects?

Mr. Bevin - Environmental or what, none.

Mr. McCarthy-The Company will hold us harmless?

Mr. O'Brien - I am concerned about an eyesore? One concern is health; you can get cancer from using a cell phone.

Mr. Bevin - No health effects proven in any study.

Mr. O'Brian - More radiation from these lights than from the tower?

Mr. Edgerly-You couldn't put it elsewhere?

Mr. Bevin - It needs to be combined from our other sites, and they need to tie together.

Mr. Taft - What is the shed for?

Mr. Bevin - Computers, supplies and the underground electric.

Mr. McCarthy-Will there be a battery backup?

Mr. Bevin – No

Mr. Auffredou - There would be a generator that would be adequate in time of power outage.

Mr. Hughes -The shed will be just one story?

Mr. Bevin - Yes, one story.

Mr. Hughes -Are you paying money for rent?

Mr. Auffredou - Before the Town can lease property the Town Board has to go through a process.

Mr. Hughes - There are rumors that the tower is going to be much higher.

Supervisor Gutheil - We will be getting a much larger tank behind the Town highway department, and the money will be used for maintenance of the water tank.

Chairman Jensen -Any questions? Okay EAF. Is there anyone aware of any environmental concerns at this site?

Public hearing is closed at 9:58 pm.

Chairman Jensen - Do I have a motion for a declaration?

Mr. Field- Motions for a negative declaration for Cingular Wireless.

Mr. Edwards - 2nds the motion.

Roll call:

Mr. Caulin -Yes Mr. Dickinson - abstain Mr. Field-Yes

Mr. Zimmerman- yes Mr. Edwards-Yes Chairman Jensen –Yes

5 yes, 1 abstain, motion carries.

Mr. Caulin -We need the signed agreement.

Mr. Bevin- Could you give a conditional for a signed lease?

Mr. Auffredou- Don't think there is a conditional, until the lease is in place, its part of the final approval.

Chairman Jensen - No action unless it is in a public hearing, you will be back.

Ethan Hall representing the owners reviews the project, the intent is to take out all the paving leaving 4 parking spaces in front of the building, a small stamped concrete pad, then crushed stone path to show the different type of equipment. All the equipment on display will be brand new.

Chairman Jensen -How many businesses?

Mr. Hall - Two businesses, the automotive is gone. Chairman Jensen - Is there any questions?

Mr. Field -Any lighting?

Mr. Hall -Only which are already on the building, all equipment is left outside.

Mr. Field- Do you have a number of the pieces?

Mr. Hall - I have shown 5 on the plans, maybe up to 7. It is not a large area.

Mr. Caulin- 5 seems to be an ambitious number.

Mr. Hall- They are smaller than a pickup truck.

Mr. Field- How much green space?

Mr. Hall - 3400 square feet

Mr. Field - What about storm water?

Mr. Hall- A new dry well, currently a catch basin and we are taking away the pavement.

Mr. Edwards- What about employee parking? And primary egress?

Mr. Hall - Between the 2 buildings, it is 22' wide.

Mr. Zimmerman-Will there be sales and services?

Mr. Hall -Service in the existing garage.

Mr. Edwards - What about floor drains?

Mr. Hall - I am not sure what they have for floor drains.

Chairman Jensen -Any questions? Board do you want a public hearing?

Mr. Edwards- Motions to not have a public hearing.

Mr. Field- 2nd the motion.

Chairman Jensen -This enhances sites and lessen the impact that Public Hearing is not necessary.

Roll call:

Mr. Caulin -Yes Mr. Dickinson -yes Mr. Field –Yes

Mr. Zimmerman- yes Mr. Edwards- Yes Chairman Jensen –Yes

Chairman Jensen -Any questions? No, the short EAF, do I have a motion?

Mr. Zimmerman - Motions for a negative declaration for Groundworks Utilities.

Mr. Caulin - 2nds the motion.

Roll call:

Mr. Caulin - Yes Mr. Dickinson -Yes Mr. Field- Yes

Mr. Zimmerman -Yes Mr. Edwards-Yes Chairman Jensen –Yes

Motion carries.

Mr. Caulin - Does this go to Saratoga County? Chairman Jensen - Do we know if it has been sent?

Mr. Auffredou- No we don't.

Chairman Jensen - We haven't received anything yet, recommend that we put them on for next month.

Tom Hutchins representing the owner Rusty Sanders describes site plan, its just north of Drywall on Rt. 9, it will be a 60 x 100' warehouse, and a 42 x 42 sales office/retail it will have 36 parking spaces, with gate access to the back, and we will be disturbing more than 1 acre, have completed form from DEC, have landscaping in the front, have shown a well and we are looking into a basin.

Mr. Field- No storm water will leave the property? Mr. Hutchins-Correct

Chairman Jensen -The intent is sales and rentals? Will it be old equipment? Mr. Sanders-The equipment will go in at night.

Mr. Field- Does the County need to know about this project? Chairman Jensen – No

Mr. Field- The engineer will have to look at this plan.

Chairman Jensen - Do you think it needs a public hearing?

Mr. Dickinson - motions for a public hearing for Action Equipment and Supply, LLC on May 15, 7 p.m.

Mr. Field-2nds the motion. Motion carries.

Mr. Zimmerman- What provisions have you made to cross over easements? Mr. Edwards-The cross access for future possible plans.

Mr. Hutchins-We could make a gate up front, will have to think about it.

Travis Mitchell - It is a 73 acre site along Old Saratoga Road; sketch plan is by Rourke with a cluster subdivision for 29 lots. 2004 the Board was in favor of application, what we are submitting tonight is updated, we moved the shared driveway north for better site distance, the pond area will be maintained, there will be a trail system, and it is a typical lot configuration on each lot. There is a shared driveway to 5 lots, 24' driveway and it will hold 85,000 lb. fire apparatus. Phase I archaeology, working with SHPO, sent letters about endangered species and we are asking the Board what they think.

Chairman Jensen -Any questions Board? Mr. Edwards- How long is the cul de sac? Mr. Mitchell-1800'

Mr. Edwards - Shared driveway is how long? Mr. Mitchell-1300'

Mr. Edwards-The entrance is a boulevard entrance? Mr. Mitchell-Yes, it is the Town standards.

Mr. Edwards-The standard is 1000'

Mr. Field- What is the purpose of limiting the cul de sac?

Mr. Edwards – Safety

Mr. Zimmerman- Shared driveways are not a good idea.

Mr. Mitchell- It would be maintained by the home owners association.

Mr. Field- Why don't you put in a Town road?

Mr. Mitchell- It would require substantial fill.

Mr. Field-The Board doesn't like private roads or shared driveways.

Mr. Caulin-The storm water drainage will not go directly into the pond?

Mr. Mitchell- No

Mr. Nicholson-The homeowners would be accessed a higher amount for the maintenance of the private road.

Mr. Zimmerman-You are going to have a problem with the private road.

Mr. Mitchell-The private road is the best area for homes and they don't want to lose that location.

Chairman Jensen- What do you want them to do Board?

Mr. Caulin-Lot 20 has a long driveway?

Mr. Mitchell- Yes, it is very steep and it needed to be long to work with the fire and EMS services.

Mr. Caulin-Lots 11 & 12,13 & 14, share a driveway? Mr. Mitchell-Yes

Mr. Edwards- Who will maintain the basin?

Mr. Mitchell-We would like the Town to, but we will do it. Chairman Jensen-What do you want to say to this applicant?

Mr. Field-Ask the engineer if there are alternatives, I don't like the private road. Mr. Nicholson- Its rural, you must have private roads.

Mr. Field-Yes, the unpaved have to have maintenance.

Mr. Mitchell-We will work with the fire and EMS on this.

Mr. Edwards- What about site development?

Mr. Mitchell- We discussed it with the engineer.

Ms. Garcia - Keep pond and green space a natural area, allow for some development of homes.

Chairman Jensen- Board any questions? Mr. Edwards- What about septic?

Mr. Mitchell- Yes

Mr. Edwards-Will you be doing well testing? Mr. Mitchell- Not yet, every 3 to 5 lots.

Mr. Center - This is 45 lots, road and retention are included, Town water, need to expand the water systems, wells will be temporary until system is finished. It has 2 entrances, town road and we are working on endangered species.

Chairman Jensen- Is this R1 zone?

Mr. O'Connor- It is zoned R2, we have the septic systems, well layouts, public water, drainage plan, all lots sized with DEC standards.

Chairman Jensen- The lot size is 22500 with public water and 32500 with wells?

Mr. O'Connor-Will discuss this with the Town, and we will cover the cost of the conversion.

Mr. Edwards- Have you considered cluster homes, have you looked into more green spaces, l think you need to take a second look.

Mr. Cerrone- I am trying to keep the prices down.

Mr. Edwards- There are a lot of lots, maybe you could look at something else.

Mr. 4'Connor-I would like to avoid a homeowners association.

Mr. Auffredou- Have you talked to Joe and Steve about ownership of the basins?

Mr. O'Connor-Not directly on this project, there has been discussions.

Chairman Jensen- Board any questions? Martin will you check on the lot size for well and public water.

Mr. O'Connor-Would like a public hearing, we did submit a preliminary. We would like to ask for 2 waivers:

-Scale of map from 1150 to 11100

-Construction drawings from 1150 to 1160

Chairman Jensen- Board what do you say?

Mr. Edwards- Makes a motion to waive the requirements as requested. Mr. Field-2nds the motion

Motion carries.

Chairman Jensen-Set the public hearing for June 19th, pm.

Mr. Field-Motions for a public hearing on June 19th for Cerrone Subdivision Mr. Zimmerman- 2nds the motion.

Mr. Edwards - Asks for adjournment of the meeting. Meeting adjourned at 11:30pm

Respectfully submitted,

Faith Bouchard Recording Secretary

CC: Zoning Board Town Board

Supt of Highways Town Clerk

Building Inspector Planning Board File

Assessor Saratoga County Planning Board